Work Session

call this work session to order. And at this time, I'm going to turn it over to our interim manager, Russ Overton.

Thank you, Mayor. Welcome, mayor and councel. Um, tonight's agenda, we're going to um review upcoming meeting schedule and then enter into our first of at least two um capital budget discussions. Um, I'm going to do a few updates that we really didn't get to at the retreat and I don't believe we're having a close session here, Lisa.

All right. So, this is

Yep. So, this is just our upcoming schedule. So, tonight we've got our work session plus regular meeting followed by the work session on the 24th and the regular meeting on the 26th and then we go into the budget openhouse on April the 7th. All right, with that, we're going to turn it over to Stacy Ti with a very green theme

tonight going on.

Very springy,

even though it's 40° outside,

right? What happened with that temperature change today? I hadn't been outside the building till I walked over here and it was terrifying. All right, so let's talk about capital budget. We, as uh Russ mentioned a moment ago, this is uh part one discussion part one. We'll have another one in two weeks, I believe, on the 24th. Just going to walk through the agenda briefly this evening. I'm going to explain the amounts of paper you have before you this evening. We're going to walk through those packets so you know exactly what you have. Um, but we have funded project information. We're going to talk about our unfunded reassess list at a very high level. We will have a quick review on where we are with our shaping carries tomorrow bond projects. We'll review the council budget schedule that you all have seen several times now along with the internal staff budget development process schedule. We'll quickly review the priorities we've discussed with you all in regards to the budget. And then we'll start looking at the 2027 general capital project requests. And so I want to be really clear about that. We're not talking about the entire budget this evening. We're also not talking about the entire

capital budget this evening. We're really spec specifically focusing on that group called general capital projects. So things like transportation, transit, fire, parks, and our general government category.

And between Stacy and I, we probably won't say it enough, but again, this is not your the recommended budget. This is very early. Maybe we said the earliest we've done it at a work session. uh so that you can have time tonight to discuss your priorities or discuss the parties that um department directors have submitted in their requests.

Very good. All right. So, I think this slide is a really great opportunity to talk about all the materials that you have in front of you this evening. Um this slide is defining for everyone or reminding everyone what a funded project means versus an unfunded project. So, funded projects are those that have already been allocated funding. I sometimes refer to them as existing projects. They have money. They are in some state of work at this point in time. Um but it may not mean that they're fully funded. Maybe some of these funded projects now require additional funding in 27 or somewhere later in our planning period. When we talk about unfunded projects, those are the projects when we met at about this time last year. We did a capital project review of all of our existing or funded projects and determined that there were 68 that we were going to place on what we call a reassess list. We're kind of using the term unfunded and reassess those terms interchangeably. So when you hear me say unfunded, it also means reassess and vice versa. So that takes us to the packets and I'll stay back here because I know this is where I need to fit, but I will try to work from memory looking at you all. Um the first item that you have in your packet I believe was the pulse report. That's just the latest budget public input that we've received. I believe I gave you a tab this week to add to your big old books. Um, and this is the document that would go in that as your most current updated budget input. Following that, you will see um a printout of all of the slides that we will be walking through this evening. So, you can add that to

your budget binder as well for a quick reminder of what we're covering this evening. I believe the next item under that is just a list of all the 2027 general capital requested projects. Again, for clarity, those are project requests that the departments have made that we all will be considering over the next few months as part of the budget process. Once you get past that, there's a one-page frontback reminder of that unfunded or reassessed project list, the 68 projects that we discussed last spring and placed on that list. And then the two large binder packets that you have, the first one is all funded general capital projects. So all fire um transportation downtown transit parks and general government projects that are currently exist and have some level of funding in them are in and are in some state of progress. It turns out that we were able to map all of our funded projects. So the map next to you contains all of our general funded projects mapped and all of our utility funded projects. And the utility funded projects are the last packet that you have in front of you. So there are, I believe from memory, 141 existing funded general capital projects and 169 existing funded utility capital projects for 310 total projects and those are all mapped in your map. There is an Excel spreadsheet that goes with the map. It became a little challenging to figure out how are we going to map 310 projects and make it meaningful. So, I'd like to thank Corey Davis uh in transportation who took this on and he developed this um schedule. I'll say where there are codes. You'll see an indicator on the map and there will be a code written inside of the indicator like 32 or G12. You then take this Excel spreadsheet that Britney and Chrisa have in your hands and you go back and you can then see this is the project that's mapped in this location for projects that are not in a council district because you will note that the council districts are

noted on that map. For those projects that are considered townwide that may happen at any place across the town and it was just simply too difficult to try to map, you know, multiple places, um you'll see a G in front of it and those indicators are placed on the town hall site. So, it doesn't necessarily mean that there are a whole bunch of pro projects going on at town hall. It could just mean that those are townwide projects um say for a greenway resurfacing maintenance project that happens annually, right? Um and it's just marked at that town hall site. So, questions on the packet because that was a lot. Um, when we did I think it was maybe April of last year when we did this big long exercise went through the how many was it 400 300

projects whatever it was

we had multiple buckets we had continue

right we had funded and we're going to work on those we had unfunded didn't we have some that were don't reconsider

right if there were some that were completed or you all directed were just done. Those have been closed and they won't appear in anything that you see. They are complete and done.

Okay. But there's there's no um everything that was on that previous list. Is it now on this group of lists?

If it is still in process, if there were projects that were deemed completed or that we were told to close, those will not be in anything that you have. We consider those finished and done, right? Um, but if it made it to the 68 reassess or it was a project that was continue, right, then it will be in this information.

Okay. So, so there aren't any that were considered at some point and are just somewhere in the ether.

There should not be no.

Okay.

Because the only the only ones you took action on uh were the 68 to

right

reassess or y words used

then staff unfunded them.

Right. Yeah. But there were some that

were just that fell out from not even reassess

only that were closed being they're closed. So they're gone.

Okay.

And in your in your descriptions like abundant clarity here. There are not descriptions for the reassessed projects. It's just the list right that says these are the 68 on that list. You've only got the descriptions and financial information for those that are considered considered funded or existing.

Okay. Thank you. and Russ, you will be able to answer questions on these projects now.

And we have all the department directors, too, as well.

Okay.

All right. So, we're going to get moving. All right. I think I gave some of this information to you just a minute ago. Um, because there's the 310 I referenced the split between general and utility. And then if you are curious regarding how much money is budgeted, meaning existing funds sitting in those projects, that's what you'll see in the budgeted column. Encumbered and expended are funds that we have either truly spent or we have obligated because we are in the process of spending them. And then balance is the difference between budgeted and the expended encumbered column. So in all $751 million budgeted current balance 356 356 million meaning we are in total 53% spent questions there. Okay, that brings us to our shaping carries tomorrow 2019 geob bond project update. So, what we have here is a list of all of the projects that were discussed as a part of that 2019 referendum. I've got some notes and it's really light orange. It looks like it's showing up a little bit differently here, but you'll notice there are three projects, playground updates, carpenter fire station road widening and the open space land acquisition. they are highlighted because it indicates that a department a department director has suggested that those be considered for funding as a part of the 2027 budget process. So, we'll talk more about that in a minute. Um, I do have a couple of asterisks up here and they're they're hard to see.

Um, one is on the NC55 pedestrian grade separation study and that's this note. Um, it's listed on there as in the planning phase. We have done a study on that project. it was $150,000 and it did not use debt to do that study. Um the second note is about the open space project. You'll see that right here and that is um that this represents remaining bond funding that would be applied potentially to the uh storm water walnut creek stream stabilization project. If you've heard anything about that

on the grade I'll just add on the grade separated um study we brought it to council either at a work session or at a queue. It may have been you and I, Stacy.

Yeah, I don't remember. But I I believe it was we ended up actually doing two in the study, God bald park in NC55.

Um, depending on whether you went um over or under tunnel, it was in the 8 to10 million range. I think eight was a

over option as I remember it. But if anybody has any questions about that, we could um follow up.

Yeah. Now what's helpful to focus on here is this progress phase column to the right showing you which projects have been completed which are in our implementation phase, those that are in the planning phase and then again those that are sitting in that undefunded reassess bucket. We did note where they were in prog progress when that determination was made last spring.

I'm just curious about the Walnut Creek Greenway implementation. That's more likely a study, not implementation. That's underneath playground updates.

Playground updates.

Um the you see it.

Yes. Yes, I do see that here. I don't have that particular information off the top of my head right now, but I can follow up on Walnut Street Greenation from the bond.

Oh, that was the portion that is at Benton.

Oh, yes. Yes,

just the portion at Benton. Okay, thank you.

That's perfect sense. Thank you for the memory jogger. So Stacy, um just a point of clarification, sorry. Um for the ones that are not highlighted in orange and they're unfunded, uh reassess planning

stage, we're not going to be requesting for funding for those who are going to keep this in the unfunded list, right?

Uh it just means that at this stage, since we're only looking at requests and no recommendations yet, that there was not a request made for that project.

Okay? if it is not highlighted on this chart.

But I was under the impression that 2019 uh projects we have to kind of make a decision this year otherwise we will be behind on our plan right um yes somewhat you have three years remaining to spend the money.

Yes.

So you know you're under the shot clock if you will. We also talked about in a prior discussion um when actually I know Stacy and I did this one on inflation um that you don't really have enough funding from what was in the bond referendum to complete all of the projects

because of the inflation.

Yes. Construction cost increasing specifically. So,

so set another way, the voters in 2019 approved what we estimated to be the funding for these projects, but because of inflation, the amount approved wouldn't cover all the projects. So, we're going to

Yes. approved with what you thought inflation would be because you're going to be building them in three fiveyear periods

and inflation construction cost outpaced um

significantly outpaced up anything we can

and property values obviously had to buy properties so yes

so the department directors have made the recommendation that are highlighted in orange and we are going to obviously review this recommendation in okay

yes yes that's what I was going to mention is remember and I will probably say it to You all are tired of hearing me say it, but we are at the earliest stage. We're just talking about requests that have come in. There's lots of time to continue to build and things will change, right? As as the directors, we're going to walk through process in just a second and as the directors make recommendations and then Russ makes recommendations and then ultimately you

all will make recommendations and decisions. So, we have plenty of time, but super super great questions. All right, if everybody's good, we'll talk a little bit about schedule and then I think that'll get us more into the meat of the discussion after that. So, um, as a general reminder, this is where we are in our overall budget schedule with you all. We are the gray circle here at March 9th through 13th. We've been doing meetings with you all and then we have our work session today. Um, we'll continue to march through this process which is now filling the better part of two slides with you all. Um, and we will obviously conclude on June in advance of June 30th per state law to have an adopted budget document.

And Stacy, at the same time, I don't we're working through with many of you. though I know I did one at uh board Lor's council leaison too. Um so we're working through this. I don't know if anyone's been part of that or not but um the council priorities discussion. So I think those are going very well.

Could you repeat that? Sorry. I don't know.

Going to boards and commissions to get feedback on um you know pri priorities and doing the quadratic voting exercise that you did at the retreat.

I've heard good feedback of um those that have happened thus far. We had ours last night. It was It went really well.

Good.

I think we [clears throat] had ours last week, right, John?

Yes.

Great. Uh, so talking a little bit about where we are in the overall budget process. The last couple of slides really focused on our work really primarily with you all, but where are the staff and the public involved in all of this? Um, this chart is indicating that clearly in the the green arrows you see, we're always receiving public input, right? Today's a great example of that. Um, as far as staff work, we started this at November because that is when the departments submitted their capital requests to the budget team. And then as you see these blocks going down here to the orange circle, January to March, um, I really want to put a little emphasis on this particular block, the January March director's review requests and develop recommendations for capital and operating. That is a practice that we followed for many years and then kind

of moved away from and we have reinstituted that this year. So, um, when we talk about being very early, the directors are still working on pulling together our recommendation as a team on both capital and operating. And our goal is to have that work complete by the end of March. So that as of April 1st, we will update Russ and the senior leadership on that. And that is then at that point where Russ will really begin to dig in, working with you all um, and forming what becomes the manager's recommended, which is brought to you at the quarterly um, for consideration over the next two months. and then adoption at the end of June. So wanted to make sure everybody understands and and then you know it's Dana likes to point out we often all breathe the sigh of relief here right when we get to June like we made it through the process it's adopted but it just starts over again that's what happens in July and September we're back out with the departments we're already talking about you know what are folks going to need in the next year gearing up to be ready to start again in November where they submit stuff back to the budget team so it really is an ongoing cycle questions on that.

How does the rolling budget approach apply to sort of this life cycle here?

That's a great question. So, you know, the way I like to think about it is at least at quarterly intervals where we have meetings with you all for the quarterlys, it's a great opportunity to address emerging needs, whether it's things that citizen staff or you all bring forward and if those emerging needs require additional funding, then that's the perfect opportunity to discuss that and bring that before you all for ultimate decision on whether or not to proceed. Dana probably has the best quote to it because that I like to steal now and I'm not going to get this right, but your budget is the snapshot of your priorities on July 1st that you wish to do for the whole year. It's probably on today.

You want I don't if you can say it better. [laughter]

You're doing great.

Because it's hard to then think that you're going to not have changes to your budget all year long. So that maybe what my clarification was going to be and Stacy can address it whether it was in the uh recommend recommendations thus

far or [snorts] ask is is there going to be a pot specific to council changes that we can draw upon for the year. That was kind of the big change um you know that occurred over the last several years is having that so you at least had the resources because if you don't have that you're going to have to bring money to a request or find or cut something uh to be able to do it. But I kind of like to think of your budget is able to be adjusted um the entire fiscal year.

Which is why I asked the question that I knew the answer to. But I think it's one of the important things. Uh uh frequently I think folks see us approving things not at budget adoption time and being able to understand why we're doing that and how we're able to do that without maybe unfunding something else or moving things around I think is important to the process and for people to understand that yes we do here and we can act on your your input all year not just the few months leading up to the budget adoption.

Great question. I just did a a thing with Bella. Actually, we just did a a Carrie Matters that I hope people will check out. [laughter]

A little a little commercial for your

Carrie Matters. A quick question, [laughter] one more about funded versus unfunded that just popped into my head.

Are the funded projects fully funded? You had mentioned in your definition that additional funding may be needed. Are those highlighted with what that additional funding might need? is not highlighted in the documentation, but it is not a given that every project is fully funded. And so, as we continue to work with you all, at least when it comes to the projects that are requesting funding in 27, as we continue this meetings, we will ultimately then bring to you what that next, you know, window of years looks like so that you can completely see what a particular project's funding need is. But for the funded projects, you are correct. What's there may not be everything that they need. Some of them may be asking for funding in 27. Some of them may not be asking for funding at all. Some may be asking in a different year

and

would they be asking for funding in that

budget? Do they have as much funding as they need to complete whatever it is is proposed for this upcoming budget year?

That is a case by case basis. I mean that goes back to the inflation discussion that Russ was saying earlier and it's it's we would assume so. Yes. But case by case it could be different.

Okay. And and why sometimes when you see a bid award um you know you have to make a decision if it's doesn't have enough funding to it is to add funding to the project sometime from reserves um to fulfill the project at that point in time because at that point in time you really know what it's going to cost. A good example and you might hold hold that thought when we there's at least two fire stations I believe that are for design funding and I was going to try to give you a a plug on Stacy developed the phases of a project to try to more easily align with funding.

Yes,

you want to hit that.

We talk we talk about projects and where they are in progress in five phases. So that's research, planning, design, implementation. Lor's got them, which is doubles for construction and completion, right? And so that at least gives you a feeling and you will see those indicators in the funded uh materials that you have. So you will you will know where in process something is. And the reason I asked that was because of um Council Member Con Johnson's question, which I wonder if the rolling budget component has that extra I don't know contingency for those those projects that we say are funded, but we might have an indication that there might not be enough money there based on what we've already put

or they're dependent on a grant or some kind of money that may or may not

or the bid, you know, the bid might not

be what we expect.

Be what we expect. Yeah,

thank you.

Great conversation.

Thanks for letting us complicate this.

You're not complicating a thing. This is important stuff to talk about.

Okay, so now I'm going to draw us back to the retreat a little bit um and just remind you of what we put before you all as potential budget priorities. So I'll

give you a minute to refamiliarize because then I'm going to show you all the results of your discussion on that, which is here. Um, and so I'll give you a minute to to recall how uh the quadratic voting exercise played out when we worked with you all on that.

So I think this is just a good thing to bear in mind as we get ready to talk about, you know, project requests in the coming years. It's nice to know um where we at that point in time uh felt we were on community safety and capital investment and other priorities. It's been interesting to me to see how the citizen advisory boards where they match up and where they they don't and how they interpreted those buckets, you know, which was just a little bit different, I know, with the senior advisory board than how we did during our exercise. But it was it's been very interesting to see um particularly like community safety, capital investment like that like where it did line up and then sort of sort of the disconnect and going okay interesting. It will be also interesting um what happened in the ICB is what happened here was many of the ISAB members felt that fiscal responsibility was similar to transparency and a horizontal

but several members did not and did what I did which is bump it up to the top

and I kept my mouth shut about that so I wouldn't in influence the room

but I'd love when we get more of those results to see them sort of juxtaposed as a graph. Yep. you know where they

by group.

Yeah. Yeah. Or all together. Yeah. Yeah. Both

planning to show it at the quarterly in May.

Of course you all are.

Yeah. We will bring we will bring that back to you. I've enjoyed

see where the um request fall in each party, if you will.

Yep. All right. So, we'll move along a little bit more. Okay. So, this is what we're all here for, right? What did the 2027 general capital request look like? So, again, this information is going to change. Sometimes it feels like it might change daily. Um, but the requests that

were submitted by category in the general government in the general capital group noted here for a total of 137.3. I be clear for those that are going to go behind me and literally add off the table. This is rounded. So there's a little bit of a rounding error. It's actually like 1371 whatever, right? But it's rounding, right? So um 137.3 if we were to consider funding all of this and just not even trying to make any priority decisions, just say do it all. Right? But what what would that take? And what we want to let you know is that that would require significant general fund fund balance transfer. We'd have to use 2019 geo bond debt and other forms of debt such as installment purchase. So just a reminder, we're very early on. Directors are doing their work. We'll get that submitted to Russ and then ultimately on to you all.

You're just literally seeing all the requests that were made.

Okay. So let's talk a little bit more about unfunded or reassessed projects because we like lots of words. So it can't just be one. And it's got to be the whole thing, right? Unfunded reassess. Um, so there are a total of 12 unfunded reassessed projects where directors submitted their requests for 27 and said, "We'd like to bring those back." And so those 12 are listed here. You're going to see them listed again in the total project list in a minute. Um, but we wanted to just kind of subset this and make it very clear so you had a place to easily go back to to see what are those 12. Um, the reason we've got blue highlighting on top is when when we get to the full list of requests in a minute, when you see light blue entries, that's simply just referring back to the subset to say, "Hey, this is one of those unfundeds that a director has said or a department has said we'd like to see funding for in 27."

So, just to be clear, this is our funding like I see lap there that will have some funding from Campo.

These could be funded in a variety of ways. And as we get deeper into this process, we're going to get very in detail with you about the types of funding that would support projects. But you're exactly right. In that case, that grant that project has a grant potentially associated with it where it would be some carry funding and some

grant funding.

So total total 6 million or

no that's just the carry component [snorts] and that's the 2027 request, right? So when we talk about we're in processes something um

that that's the point I want to make for whoever's watching this is the money we would have to put in.

Yeah.

Yes. I see where you're heading. You're exactly right.

I see where you're going.

Yeah, I got you.

How much is it going to cost us?

You're exactly right.

Uh so for the greenways, do we know how long will that be? Because there are two uh the Hedron's Ivy Greenway and the Optim Altimist Farm Greenways, but they're 6 million and 7 millions. Do we have a like so that we can compare like land may be more expensive to to for a new greenway. So it's uh because we just see the project we have no idea how long will that project be.

Yeah. And you will get more information. What we're presenting tonight is just the list of projects. We're working on pulling together all of the descriptions in a consistent manner so that they read e easily um and contain the same amount of content, you know, for easy digestion because it's a lot to read through. Um but we want to make sure it's clear and available to you all. So, we're in process of doing that and I believe when we give you the description information to partner with this list, you'll have the context that you're looking for.

So, this is one piece. We acknowledge that. I hate that I'm asking this question. Go back

in the spirit of transparency.

This is what staff has decided is their most important um projects for funding in 2027.

This is staff's recommendation regarding a review of the unfunded list. These are the projects that staff has moved forward for consideration to take to Russ who will ultimately bring something to you.

And and I'll just throw in it's for this year. Not that one's more important than the other, but what's timely for this

year?

This year.

Y

yeah, these are great clarifications. I love that we're being so specific.

That was what I wanted to

Thank you.

And let me add just a little bit of clarity. Um uh using one of the lap projects as an example, Carpenter Fire Station where it says LAP and it has a number at the right. Um we're currently in the process of evaluating um the portion that is grant funded and the portion that is needed from either general fund dollars or other things. And um and so it's hard to just universally say this is only this is this doesn't include lap funding. It might include some lap funding or it might be in future years. And so you're just seeing a snapshot here and that's part of the job. The you know the directors um have a lot of detail that they maintain obviously in their own records. Um, but as we get into the consideration of things, that's when we really start to dig into the detail of is there a portion of it that is lap, what percentage of it is lap, what more might we be able to get out of lap, that kind of stuff.

So, so can I make it even more complicated?

Yep.

So, we have all the different stages scores your request and one stage might not score better than the other stage. So, we might not get this and we might get that. So [clears throat] that makes it more complicated. But

it it is very complicated and we're not talking about funding sources tonight, right?

So um that's the most important thing that is it is such a ridiculously complicated job that once we get more detail, we'll be able to share it with you. Um so we can give you a lot lot more detail. But at this point it really is getting into that detail. We just don't have um all of the finite answers to be able to give you. Dana, but to clarify maybe the mayor's question, these have already been scored and

approved for some amount of lap funding. I think we're really talking would you need more or not?

That is correct.

Um,

just to be clear.

Well, [clears throat] lap funding's done every year, so they'd have to rescore it. If it scored well last year, it'll score well this year.

We And we didn't submit for projects this past year.

We did. Um,

Cassie's shaking her head.

Yeah, let me give a little bit of clarification. Um they these are ones that have been awarded lab funds.

Okay.

And are somewhere in the process and have not yet been um removed from the funding.

Got it. Yes. Um, if we decide to not proceed on things, more pro some projects will likely be removed from the funding and then you will have to go back into the cycle again.

Okay.

And I understand we don't want to get into a funding discussion, but we've now used Campo and LAP about a half dozen times each. Maybe someone wants to high level define those.

Capital Area Metropolitan Planning Organizations Executive Board decides how to spend federal dollars.

Yes. Is that a quick way to say it?

Yep.

Yes.

And lap is locally administered project

projects program. Yes.

Program.

And that's annual. Then we also have the 10-year thing called TIP which we also this like moving 10 years that we decide on as well.

Transportation improvement program.

Yes. And these are complimentary funds to our funds. Yes. Thank you. Just

I know when I first started I was just like oh you guys need your acronyms. [laughter]

Stacy before we move on I I think I'm going to ask the same question one more time.

That's [laughter] gohead.

Uh this is a highle discussion tonight but at some point we're going to get more details about why the rationale for these projects in particular and not the others that remain on the list. But that's not necessarily a question we need to address tonight. tonight. We're

just seeing the list as it exists now.

That is exactly right.

And also to add, since it's in your materials, if there's a project you wish to see more on that wasn't included in the list, then please tell us.

Um because we've got two weeks worth of work to come back to the next, you know, work session and give you more or if there's something that you aren't seeing as we get to the bigger list that you wish to um also discuss more, then please bring all of that up. The more we y'all surface tonight in your discussions will allow us more time to get you feedback on any projects. Again, this is just staff's right

priorities. So, we want to hear yours.

And this looks like about 29 million right here.

Roughly. Yes,

roughly. Okay.

All right. Questions on this one? All right. We'll go. So, what we have here is the beginning of the list of all of the FY2027 requests submitted by department directors. And I mentioned a minute ago that when you see light blue like you see here, those are projects that are be categorized as unfunded reassess where department directors and staff have said we'd like to bring that project back for some funding in 2027. And that's when you see the blue highlights throughout. That's what that's going to indicate. So the next few slides are literally just a reflection of the list that you all have before you. um I can click through them at a pace that's comfortable to you if you want a minute to just sit on this and think. Happy to do that. Um this is just a chance to get some feedback and conversation from you all.

Just when we look at this would uh when do you expect we'll get the detail on the project?

We're working on it right now. I wanted to um I I believe you all know that we are a uh we are we are sparse in the budget team right now. Is that fair? Um, [laughter] and so I have been able to uh I've gone with Marshall some help um from parks, specifically Julie Collins

and um from John Holloway and public works and they right now are working on getting all of that description information that comes into our technology tools into a format that's clear and concise and easy for you and the public to digest. We are hoping to have it done in the next couple of weeks. Um, but they are doing that work in addition to their regular work and that's why I appreciate them. So, um, it was Julie that prepared the two big documents before you today, the funded list both for general and capital. Um, so yes, we are working on it. Yes, I hope it's in the next two weeks. I'm not willing to promise it yet. [laughter] I was just I'm also curious if are there any uh contingencies? Are there any items for instance I'm looking at the officer items which are further down. Is there one thing that requires another, right? Are there any prerequisites for any of them? Like you can't pull this one out unless you do all these other things associated with it.

Well, even with the descriptions when those are available, I would lean on the directors to provide that guidance because they're the ones that are truly going to know, right? The chief's going to better know than Russ and I will be.

And that's what I think. The directors are here to answer questions. If y'all have specific questions, we let's take advantage of the group that's here um and advantage of our time. If you want a high level overview, the paper overview is what's coming.

That's what I will provide.

And if you'd like me to click further, I can do that.

Well, I'm looking at the the sheet here, and the one I'm having trouble figuring out what it is is the I see the blue ones are the ones that are from the

fun unfunded reassess list.

Specifically,

staff recommended

last 12 2019 bond project.

Bond project.

No, no, no. Let's make sure everybody's

there's two distinctions. So that's we've got two colors of highlighting for two different reasons. Um and so the bond project list is just to say hey this is what we talked about in that referendum and oh by the way some of those projects three of them playgrounds open space and

uh carpenter fire station road have been requested for funding in 27. It could

could there could be overlap in the case of the carpenter fire station road project where it's a bond project and it was on the unfunded list but that is not always the case. Is that fair?

So let's see how to ask this question. When I see fire station 101 I know I think from my conversation I could be wrong that it's a fiveyear process. So if we delay that means it comes online five years later it's achieved.

Well and this is a great example before we even turn to Chief Cooper.

And so is that going to affect our level of service if we delay one year? Because if we're just looking for the line item for this year for that amount that's totally different from you know the impact that it's going to have over the years if we delay one year. How do we see that in numbers?

And before you go I want to point out this represents design funding. Right. Right.

So, you're going to get more information where we're going to show you in 28, 29, 2030 what additional funding is necessary to construct that station. So, I wanted to make sure you understood that before we set the chief,

but it's a CIP and it's going to [snorts] shift,

right?

Yeah, that's I'm going to turn to the chief

capital improvement plan.

Capital improvement plan.

I was like, what?

This is the budget. The plan [laughter] is

looking forward either.

Sorry, chief. Mayor, to answer your question directly, it takes us three years if we own the property from design. So, we have land for both 10 and 11. So, it's a three-year process from the time design is funded for us to complete uh completely build the station. And then we run predictive analytic models to determine what the call volume is currently. We factor in u future planning and growth and look at what the projected response time would be in there. So give you an idea for station 10 we're in excess of 7 minute travel time and our performance in that area and station 11 we're at 10:42 on travel for first in engine

and you said three years that's from go to we're operating

that's correct yes sir

okay with

hiring possibly hiring staff purchasing equipment you might want

that's correct so if we were funded design in uh if it was funded in July we would start design takes approximately 8 to 12 months to design it. We would then bid it and construction and then go to construction. That's about a 2-year process together. We would go ahead and order the engines this year.

Oh, that's another thing

because it takes 36 to 48 months to do that. And then um from that 3-year period, we back out of that. So, we would look to hire at about the 2-year mark, run an academy, get the people online, and have them ready to go when the station opens. And how many that's operational?

That's correct.

Yeah.

How many staff? Typically

15 people per station.

Just so you have some.

And chief, before you go, just to remind myself and the team here, I believe that this new apparatus request that is those engines.

That is correct on that list. I'm having trouble seeing it, Stacy, but the new apparatus

2.86 million right here on new apparatus.

That's the new apparatus. And then the the line above and that's apparatus for both 10 and 11. And then the apparatus replacement that is uh that's two engines and a rescue. That's part of our normal apparatus replacement schedule

for existing stations.

Yes, ma'am. That's correct.

And so I want to make sure I understand if when we fund these 1.265 million projects, what we're essentially doing is getting the ball rolling for two new fire stations to be open in about July of 2030. 2029, my math.

Yes, ma'am. 2029. Yes, ma'am.

Okay. Okay. I just wanted to make sure I understood.

Okay. And you we already own the land for both of them. Is that what you said?

Yes, ma'am. That's correct.

Okay.

And they're going to be both serving Chadam and Wake to Right. It's a shared that side of the area.

Yes, ma'am. Um station 10 is on Okelly. The the site is on a coach Chalipa Road. Then it's station 11's on White Oak. So, it'll serve both Chattam and Wake County uh carry in both both those counties and we will most likely colllocate with Wake County EMS at station 11 and First Health at station 10.

Wonderful. Thanks.

Would you all like me to advance to another slide? You happy to sit here?

Yes, please.

Okay, we'll advance. How's that? I think that's what I heard.

All right. This is the next grouping. Um starting with some capital maintenance projects there at the top. Um, GM stands for general maintenance in our coding. And so what you see there are some routine maintenance projects to care for the facilities that are currently existing.

I know we're going to get an update on the multimotal transit center. Is this design? What part of the program is this?

You get some of water.

We need It's almost like we need someone to carry around a microphone.

Yeah. like in a town hall.

Um so we actually already have the funding for design and that's through Wake Transit. Um that was in the CIP a couple of years ago. This I think it's 5 million, right? Um that is for some initial site work. So we have about 60 million in the wake transit plan in the out years and we're taking it in smaller chunks until we're ready to have the larger construction budget. um which I think at this point is probably planned FY28. Um but we'll have a better idea of that within the next probably 12 months.

Do you have a I know a significant amount of it is funded by Wake Transit.

Is there a percentage?

So all of the design and construction is through Wake Transit at this point. Um we don't have a total budget for that yet. We won't know until we have a

better cost estimate coming out of the design process. Um the money that's in Wake Transit right now is from very early feasibility studies um that are probably four to five years old at this point. So I would anticipate that number going up.

So what happens if this 5 million does not get funded

that's already funded through Wake Transit. It's it's 100% Wake Transit money

kind of recognizing the funding.

Yeah. The interesting thing about

So this isn't a decision that we have to make on that line item

goat.

That's not money out of car's budget. It is not

correct. There is one project, so this is a great point. This

I'm trying to figure out which ones are the ones you want.

So in the go carry stream of things, there is one project where we provide our participatory funding and specifically and that's the $75,000 project for GO Carry Capital Amenities. That's written into our contract agreement.

It's part of the nonsupplantation for Wake Transit. So, when we first started um receiving funding back in 2017, they established a baseline of both operating and capital funding that the town would continue to contribute in order to remain eligible for Wake Transit funds. And so, every year we have $75,000 on the capital side. That's 100% town funded and that goes to improving amenities throughout the system. And then the operating baseline fluctuates. It goes up a little bit each year. um to remain consistent with that initial year of funding um through Wake Transit in 2017.

So, is there a way to identify on these list what's really carry money?

We This doesn't include Stacy kind of mentioned it because we'll be bringing you more where you show what the funding source is.

We're going to give you all of that. Just this baby steps.

No, I was [laughter] obviously I was like, "Okay, well, what happens if we don't put that in and hearing, well, you already have that money, so of course you're going to put that money in." Great questions. Yeah. And to um you know share with everyone. I also draw your attention on the ex on the packet for existing capital. It's on page 37 is

the details because this is an active existing funded project. Kelly's mentioned you're just adding more funding to it as we receive it until we go to construction.

And this is another timing thing. We have BRT by the end of the decade regional rail and hopefully that'll move into something else.

Oh, I totally get it. I wanted [clears throat] to know the unintended potential unintended consequence of funding or not funding something. But since

it's not our money question,

you want it.

Yeah. Take it. [laughter]

Makes the go carry on a little easier. Right.

We need to approve the projects even though they're not our funding and that's why they're included in this list.

Correct. Because we administer the project, we do the work and so we need to adopt that into our budget and so that we can manage that budget in order to complete the work.

Thank you.

Right. Little asterk or something. as it moves forward, we'll know where they where the money comes from. The color of

We'll show you the funding.

Yeah, you're going to get all the detail on funding source is kind of like the next step.

Okay.

Um so, anything you talk about here today is helpful to us um from the perspective of understanding your priorities. So, uh, you don't necessarily, it's good to, you know, know that you don't probably need to spend very much time on go carry. Um, [laughter] but and the some of the other things, you know, if you, if you just talk about them, um, as being a priority of yours or your interests, etc. That is very helpful to us at this stage.

Great.

Yeah. And I we'll keep adding to this. Go care. Easy to not talk about because it's someone else's money. on the rest. Other things that are our money and funding sources are still being determined um because with this list, this list will be paired down as um discussions with directors and y'all uh move forward.

Any other questions on this particular slide? I can advance or we can sit a bit.

Curious you um you said it's good to know what our priorities are. is that is part of the expectation here to share which ones we're particularly um excited about or not excited about.

Is that the kind of feedback you're looking for?

That would be great because we've asked directors to do the same thing. Okay.

So, the next list you'll see will likely be smaller than this.

Um so that we know what we can bring the right funding sources to.

So, obviously I'll just say that I'm very excited about all of the housing ones. [laughter] I think and personally the continued commitment that we already said we were um we prioritized for healthy homes carry program and stable homes carry continuing that commitment which we already promised would be important to me to keep to our commitment.

And if we could go back one slide please. Um, I feel like the fire stations and the Do we have the carpenter fire station on this one or No,

the road

the road.

It's further down. We haven't gotten to it yet, but it's coming. I can go there if you'd like to see it.

I can go there now. Let me go. Give me just a second. It's under street new widen. You'll see it right here.

Yeah. So I think this project is important um for my district because this was already underway in progress. We uh purchased right away lot of land.

What are we talking about?

The carpenter fire station widening

lap funding.

So the we already purchased a lot of um properties you know to for right away moved power lines or the work has already started. We had to stop the work last year because of the um fund lack of funding and I think this project would be a great one. I know that we had a discussion about there are a lot of projects in district D which are on the pause list but I think this one would be the best qualifier to move forward because of the stage that it's in right now.

That one's at the top of your district wish list.

Yeah. Okay. And it's a it's a connector road for district D with district A.

It would be great to have this widening completed. It's

generally connecting to NC55 doing a lot of peace meal work maybe that hasn't been done from develop the developments have left gaps

uh through I think almost to um 540. Yeah.

So it's moving west just to give you an idea on the on a map.

So this is also will be additional funding in the future. Uh so do it says in this color each of these has additional funding request in subsequent years. So that won't be the only this year right

they she's uh we're let me back up a little bit if I can go back.

So this is only uh physical year 27. So for 28

so for this project what I understand is we do not need additional funding right we just need 9 million.

I don't have it in front of me. I'll let Cassie I think is

here. I'll come back to the slide where we were.

So our estimate estimate with escalation and pricing due to inflation, we proposed $22 million for the carpenter road total road widening. What we're fund proposing to do, we don't need all of that funding in the first year.

Okay.

This project does have we just received construction authorization through NC DOT. Um, we have all the permits in place and the and just a few more tweaks to the design and then then it'd be ready to go out to bid. Um, with this we would we would spend what we needed to like the 9 million would fund the first phase of construction and then we'd move on to the other ones and that would be funded in FY28.

Good question.

And that had lap money also and it's already been approved for lap funding.

Yes, we've signed the agreement for LAP funding. And this is why don't focus too much on the funding type because this was also a bond project

and we'll be dependent upon further discussions as we move forward about if you put more bond money to it, you might need more earlier to start spending. So

this is just a first pass um is probably a good example because to get under construction, you'll need to have

more funding.

Yes.

Um that's why funding source isn't really the issue tonight. It's more a little bit more priority.

That's often the clarification that I think I have trouble getting to. If we spend, say we invest the 9 million

and then decide that's enough next year, have we just made a big old mess or have we made improvements that are solving problems and, you know, moving towards a goal? If we commit to this 9 million, are we am I really in my head committing to approximately 22 million over the next several budgets?

You would want to thank you for the very direct answer. That's exact. And that's that I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I just want to understand like really what we're

Yeah. You don't want to build half a house with no door and walls, right? You want to know that you need all the money eventually

or we just, you know, at the last thing we want to do is fund projects so that we make a mess

and then we didn't solve any problems and probably create some problems. So,

yeah. And that's why you know when we were having discussion during 3x4 meeting like green level church road that also requires improvement it's um if you drive through that road it's two lane and then there's no sidewalks and you know it's it's a mess. Uh we really need to invest money. It's not a mess sorry but it's it needs improvement. Sorry but then

sense DOT's road we're just working with them to improve [laughter] it.

So we need improvement. We need designing but you know um do we start that project versus continue the one that's already you know which is already in

green level church has not been designed yet if you want to probably

speaking to why this is a higher party to put money towards it's because the things that you mentioned it has been designed

um

on the bond

it had utilities moved green level church Okelly um they have not had uh design money yet

and which of these are our roads versus DOT roads All DOT. They're all DOT. They're all DOT roads.

So, will the DOT uh pay back to us?

Well, that's the LAP funding, I guess.

Yes. So, it's nice that we get some L, but generally speaking, DOT does not have funding or has not committed funding to these types of roads.

But once we do these roads, we hand them over and they maintain them, right?

Yes. Maybe. But for the sidewalk, I believe.

In theory.

Yeah.

So, this is not a priority for all the projects. Well, the staff gave us the there 12 prioritized and then these are all of them with the highlighted blue ones are the staff ones.

Are they the priorities or they are just they are the need future subsequent years of additional funding?

It's it's it's both, right? So there were 68 unfunded reassessed projects and when staff went to prepare this year's budget request, they reviewed that list of 68 and these 12 projects which also have additional funding needs were the 12 that rose in their opinion to this to the point of being placed on this official request list that came to the budget team and on to you all.

So is my understanding correct? So for the rest of the projects, if we decided to fund those projects, it's only this year. We don't need a

No, the the blue indicator about future year funding is just referring just to those particular unfunded projects. We will be providing you a list. There are very there are definitely projects on that list like the fire stations we talked about and others that have future year funding needs coming. And that's the next step of information that we'll provide to you all is the full picture of beyond just 27. Now here's the rest of the funding needed. Not every project is like that, but many are.

And some are maybe more clear. I think one was a study. There's some Let's see.

Where are we headed?

There's like a stormwater master plan and utility study.

After you study it, there's probably going to be,

you know, construction funding, land acquisition. That that that one is at

least clear enough in the description that you can

Yeah, Bella. I think maybe the most straightforward way to do this. And Stacy, [laughter] correct me if I'm wrong, but if you take the two printouts that we have, you know, we've got the 68 projects that were reassess and then we have the one that is uh fiscical year 27 request. The ones in blue just mean that they're also on this list.

Yes,

that they were essentially rescued from this list to appear in fiscal year 27.

Okay. So, they are the bond,

not those aren't the bonds. [laughter]

The bond is ours. Sorry, those are staff favor.

Bond is orange. Bond is orange. Sorry. Bond was only orange because she showed the bond list.

Staff favor.

I'm going to take a stab at that.

It's like a favorite. It's like a like.

Okay.

We like these. Staff likes those.

There was only really two list. You had funded and unfunded and bond could be an either or.

Correct. That's a great way to think about it.

So staff up voted these.

The blue 12.

Blues are up votes.

Yes.

Well, everything on this list is Yeah. everything on 27 from the previous uh

unfunded. Yeah.

And if it's a little unclear,

I'm sorry.

We haven't seen this this way yet.

So

once we get it, we'll get it.

Exactly.

It's all right. To Britney's point, the list of the 27 requests that you had in your hand is simply just being reflected on these many slides right here. It's the same document, right?

Yeah.

This list of however many there are, I don't remember the count off the top of my head. Those all of them collectively were submitted by right

directors and directors said these are the things that we as your professional staff believe should be addressed right

in the next budget year right

it gets complicated because we have all this other stuff going on. We've got projects that we placed on a reassess list. We have a geo bond referendum that we're trying to figure out how to manage.

General obligation.

General obligation. Thank you. And so sometimes in some of these cases, like Russ just said, those worlds start colliding, right? So then you have one

that staff said, "Yeah, we need to bring it forward and it's on the reassess list and oh wait, this one has some bond funding, too." So it's a layer situation

I get what you're saying. [laughter] They are the up votes from this list from the 68 uh previously identified as unfunded but not necessarily up votes relative to all the other requests on this one.

Yeah.

Correct. So

is that true?

That's true.

So wait the blue ones don't mean that those are of a relative higher priority on this because right now these are all considered essentially equal

equally weighted. Equally are they?

Yes. In this list

they're equally weighted. The blue just means reminder. I was reassessed and now I'm over here.

Okay. [laughter]

Are Okay. Well, let me ask it differently. Are all the ones that were on the reassess list now on this new list?

That's why they're blue. We only took 12 of the 68.

So, the staff picked 12 projects out of the previous 68 list

and they have put that in the new list.

Got it.

Yes.

Well, that was my question like five slides ago. Were there any that fell out of the 68 list?

We didn't understand question. I thought you meant did they disappear like entirely in this universe. So yes, only 12 are only 12 of the 686.

Yes. Look at the ones that did not get funding and if you'd like to give us feedback on those.

Yes. I didn't do that. I will. Yeah. Is that And we're getting to that tonight. Like

Stacey can back up some stuff. We can back up.

You can you can do that tonight.

So, where am I going back to?

It's 6:00 to uh Oh, do you have the 68? You may not have 6:00.

Yes.

Can we do real presentation?

No. This is what it is.

Hold on. Hold on. This is where Jenny does the six o'clock check-in.

That's exactly

in 2 minutes. Yes. Six o check in. [laughter]

Yeah. We don't have a slide with the 68

unfunded reassessed projects, but you do have the list in front of you. So, you can to what Britney was saying a moment ago, um you can look at that list of 68 and you can compare it to your 2027 requests.

But Stacy, let let's just let's take the temperature down. You are not missing any opportunity. Do not feel like right now you've got to run through this list and tell us your votes.

No, you do not need to do that. You have you have tonight. You have whenever you want to do that. If you saw something that spoke to you because it's in the universe, then you may speak it to us, but it's you're fine. You have plenty of time. This is just to get you familiar with the list. Is that fair, Stacy?

That's perfect. Thank you, Susan.

Excellent.

First of many discussions

here. Hold on. Can I ask this? [clears throat]

Can I share that I was pleased to see um a real investment in storm water on here? I think that while it's not the sexiest money we spend, I think it's money we won't regret spending and it's I see that as exceptionally timely. Um, and I also saw some other things on there that I I feel as though we asked frequently. I think I've heard this out of Michelle and Lori in years past specifically things like ADA

funding and and stuff like that where there was a lot of projects I think we wanted to prioritize but you know maybe let's you know in the spirit of being kind competing priorities or whatever but I feel like I was really pleased to see some of those things added in here as as requests that I think uh again we won't regret um getting to those. I know it's been an ongoing process. We've been investing in those bringing things up to a better standard, particularly the town facilities. I know I've brought that to staff attention before, you know, with some of the, you know, even our community centers. I' I've watched

somebody have to carry a child in because their wheelchair wouldn't fit through the door,

you know, stuff like that.

That's just important investments I think we have to make um sooner rather than later. Yeah.

So, kudos whoever popped that in there made me happy.

This is your six o'clock. [laughter]

Is it

and and what happens now, Jenny? As

turn. [laughter]

Yes. Well, um at 6 o'clock, we try to wrap up here, you know, 6:10, 6:15. So, you have very limited time.

And I have a few updates I'd like to get to if possible because there were no there were no decisions tonight. It's a glimpse into the process. um you know, as it is, obviously see where staff are at at a moment in time and um you've got plenty of time, as Susan said,

and 3x4 is next week

to get to continue to give us feedback as we pair down this list to what will be included in the recommended budget. So, thank you Stacy. Um thank you budget team. They're kind of new. I think Robbie Liippard is also one. and uh Margaret Moore. Yes, you mentioned several, but we've we have a great budget team that from staff from other departments.

Yes, I didn't talk about I talked about my Marshall help, but I didn't talk about like my favoriteest people who are back here, which is Robbie Liippard, who's helping us on the capital front, and Margaret Moore, who is currently our budget analyst and who has bailed me out many times in the last couple weeks.

Wonderful.

Awesome.

Yes. And and really thanks for your uh question. staff sees and does this, you know, kind of almost every day, certainly every year, especially for uh Bella and Britney, you know, it's kind of your first foray into into our budget. So, I think um I think it was a really good discussion. And as you have questions, just please do not hesitate to ask. I'm going to do a few updates. Uh they're a little bit some are timely um and some are, you know, kind of a carryover from some miscellaneous updates that we wanted to do at the retreat. Starting with uh what you and I know we are getting questions about is when is the Cedar Street parking deck

going to open? Um although although the mayor

March 16th

kind of gave it away. [laughter] Um and the hope is and so Shelley is going to say next week. I'll just say it for you but next week.

Next week.

Not March 16th. Next week.

Yes. We hope it's the 16th. It might be the 16th, but next [clears throat] week for sure as we work through some uh final inspections. If anybody's ever done a home renovation project or built a home, uh you know, you think it's ready to move in and then you're touching up paint and all the stuff that kind of prevent you from moving the furniture in. That's kind of where we're at. Um but it looks like next week and it's a very uh pretty facility. Uh to it will have 290 all public spaces. Um and so we look forward to that. The next one is then the Academy Street parking deck, which uh Do you want to say anything to that? Will likely not be next week, but it's getting very close. And we think the apartment, the adjacent apartment complex is going to get um its CO or TCO probably next week. And as they work through those items on the parking deck, they'll likely be parking in the um surface lot until we get a CO um in our

What's a TCO? uh temporary uh temporary um

certificate

certificate of occupancy. Yes. So temporary or the real one and that is the this one this deck is attached to the um apartment. So there's fire alarms and sprinklers and other things that you know it all has to be kind of done at the same time. But y'all seen it come up the I think they're working on the road connection to uh Chattam Street now as well. Is access to that deck on Academy Street?

It's on Academy Street. And actually, my laser's working. Let's see.

Is there more than one?

You can get through here. So, you're Harrison or um Chadam and you can go in this entrance or you can come in off academy through there. So, there actually two entrances. Uh you see there's 476 total spaces. 223 will be

public. They're on like the first two floors. Um I think you go down like a half a floor. Um, and then if you go up too far, you're going to get to a fence and roll up doors. So, they're having nested parking for um, residents.

It'll be our first parking that we're seeing how that operates. If you've seen roll up doors and how residents will get in and so the top floor, we won't have issues with the public going to the top. They own the top. It's actually a condo association, I believe. Yes. Is the public art on the side of it? The lights, the vine vine lights or is that permanent or is that temporary?

It's temporary or I'm looking for John. I think it's part of glow.

Glow.

Is it part of glow? So, yes.

Yeah. So, opening very soon as well. All right. This is the one I really wanted to get to for y'all, but the downtown business alliance is something that uh as a study is something that was brought up some time ago. uh maybe have been discussed by several council members. And uh it was thought that the town might perform a study uh to see if a business alliance might uh you know uh be able to something that could stand up by a group um you know of any group I guess I'll say. I don't I don't want to like foreshadow what the study would say. So, this was really just a proposal to study whether or not a business what a business alliance is or isn't for downtown Kerry and what it could be. So, the cost to study uh and get feedback on this would be $75,000. It was budgeted in this year's budget. um and staff has been through a selection process, has someone that we would um recommend entering into a contract with if this is something that the council wishes to move forward and at some point uh it can be tonight or later. I would like to get council to weigh in on moving forward with that expenditure. Um you see what some of the scope of work would be is community

assessment and research stakeholder engagement which would generally be down businesses downtown uh framework for a potential alliance a draft strategic plan and a roadmap for implementation whomever might be deemed to uh implement it. If it were the town there would certainly become a cost with that. If it was another group they'd have to figure out how to fund it. So I don't know those that know a little bit about that. if you want to say anything. Um, well, I'll open it up to y'all for questions or comments.

So, in general, can someone share um the value of a business alliance and its uh alignment with a a municipal service district and and what the history of those are.

Um, I'll add or Susan or someone else may want to add, but let

so that so that those folks watching know.

Yes.

What is a downtown line?

You wish to Yeah. So, a downtown business alliance almost always overlaps with a municipal service district. It doesn't have to, but a lot of times in municipal service district, which is set up to have an additional tax to get additional services, um the alliance is what helps to run those additional services. So, something like keeping things clean. They might have additional ways to clean a certain place downtown. The alliance then would hire those private contractors and implement that through the funding generated by an additional tax.

I'm always looking at pros and cons. What's the con?

You're going to spend $75,000 and get a study that might position a group of people to do something. You're going to spend $75,000 that might um uh look like you're going to position the town to do something. You might spend $75,000 and it comes back and says, "We're Carrie's not ready for one yet."

Right.

Um and then and you may also then feel pressure to um if you were to try to pay for this, help pay for this in any way

and you get into the conversation that we had earlier with Carissa, which is you can levy an additional tax as Scott said in the business improvement district. One penny yields $50,000 approximately right now.

So,

so it sounds like the study will give us the cons.

Well, and and realistically, and I I shared this feedback when we discussed this in our 3x4, this feels very much to be right in the scope of what our chamber does.

And I if anything, I think it's a it's a really good it seems like an excellent idea to me to have a downtown business alliance. to that matter any of our sort of regionally specific areas having business alliances to me seems like a really probably positive thing in a lot of places but I really feel as though this is a chamber of commerce function and I'd like to discuss that with leadership at the chamber um and understand where they might play a role in this um because it doesn't feel like a town of Kerry thing to me

yeah I I agree Carissa I don't think it's a a reflection of the value of the business alliance. I think there's a lot of value there, but whether or not it's makes sense for the town to make an investment in essentially what is a feasibility study for what will be an organization, Scott, if I if I understand this correctly, should the study reveal that this is a good idea and it's implemented, it then becomes its own entity. This isn't something that the town really has ownership of, so to speak. Correct. That's likely the outcome. Yeah.

Right. So then we're making this upfront investment to figure out if this is something to your point or Susan maybe you said it if it was something that was even going to move forward because perhaps the result of the study is it actually doesn't make sense to move forward. Um and so then the town has made the investment for this entity then that is not ultimately you know the the

town's responsibility. I don't know if that makes a lot of sense for us. Yeah.

Uh I mean I think the business alliance very well could make sense but we might not be the right partner to fund this study for that purpose. Other places that have business alliances outside of Kerry. How are they funding in the initial steps?

I don't I don't know about the initial because I haven't researched how they you know did the studies or generated them. They're often funded, like I said, by the municipal service district. Um, as well as you the like the city of Raleigh, they might contribute some money and then the businesses might contribute and get sponsorship money.

And I'll just add, I met with the Raleigh Downtown Alliance and their funding comes from, yes, that MSD, that tax, but they have a lot of um large players in the game. They have their biggest funding comes from Duke Energy and um some of their larger businesses in downtown. Okay.

Mhm.

Is that is that pretty common for chambers and large businesses to start the alliance programs like Winston Salem has one? I know we got um updates from them. I think Newburn had one. What looking around because Raleigh's a little bit of a different animal because it's so much bigger. Do we have any indication of how what the history is and what are the processes? I'm sure there's likely best, you know, best case scenarios or examples of how people have done this in the past.

There are a lot of different examples. I don't have the numbers, but we did look at a lot in North Carolina, looked at Wilmington, and again, it is taxing those the businesses and residents within the district um for that funding. There were a few that were through their chamber of commerce and then um there was a lot less it felt like that was um funded through the town.

Okay.

But there's lots of different forms of funding the alliances.

I'd like to see more information about that.

Sure.

Yeah, I would I would as well because the we have a business improvement which I'm guessing acts just like an MSD that we're not actually implementing for taxing authority right now, right? It seems like it's like a chicken and an egg. Which one comes first? Do you first start taxing it, get the money, and create the alliance or do you create the alliance and they tell us how much they want to be taxed to then implement new services? It would be interesting to see which one came first.

Yeah. Well, let me just add because we are not the experts. Obviously, you're hearing from Britney and staff of um spending staff time and resources to do research for you and you know, have more discussions or hire someone to do it for us. um hap happy to spend more time on it. It may or may I don't know what it means to the contract that we have before us um potentially doing or not. Looks like Chief wants to say something.

Well, I can think I can answer Lor's question a little better because I've been involved in about three of these things. Center City Partners, there's one down in Atlanta and then one up in Hampton. I think where the funding comes in from the as Britney was saying, she's 110% right. But the difference is is those big corporations and those big spenders are located within that tax district. Right. Right.

And so that's their motivation for being involved in it. Like in Charlotte, you had what I'd call the big three. Duke Energy, you had uh AT&T, you had the banks and all that. And and there was motivation for them to work together and coordinate. And there's security teams that go with that. in the smaller areas. Uh uh you know, Hampton would be the most uh aligned with this. And I'll be honest with you, I don't know how it was originally funded, but they did supply enough to add like for an additional service would add, I think it was like eight police officers. Now, the catch there, the downside the mayor was talking about is you have to be careful and communicate solidly with them because they'll want to take your position over those police officers. in

setting policies, procedures, what you can't let them do. Uh what you can do is let them pay for it and then you provide the additional services that you know, frankly, we're already doing with your vote a couple of years ago to add a few people. But that's where the the the money generally comes from.

Uh and it's up to those businesses that want to participate now.

And I'm just going to give another time check at 6:15.

Yes. Okay. Th this is really if um if you want to continue this discussion, I'd recommend we just kind of bring it back to the next work session and have more discussion on it.

Yep.

And we can end with this item and do the rest of uh this and other updates at the next work session.

Sounds good to me. Everybody else? Okay.

Yes.

All right. We'll adjourn this meeting and move to the next