Work Session

call to order the December 9th work session of the Kerry Town Council. And I was just made aware that our clerk, Jenny Johnson, got

what was the award she got? She got this uh um gold the recognition the gold award

from CPRC from CPRC Central Pines for her exemplary. [applause]

So tonight's work session we're going to be talking about um rules, procedures, boards, commissions, ethics among other things. But I'd like to start off uh by reading a statement first of all. Yeah, here's where we are. We will have a closed session tonight. Um I want to try to keep this part of the open session to about an hour and if we can't cover everything that's fine. We can move it to another work session. Uh but I think we we should be able to do that. Uh but I would like to uh start off [clears throat] uh by reading a statement. So tonight marks our first televised and stream council work session. Moving forward, all work sessions, quarterly meetings, and retreats will be accessible for public viewing. I introduced this proposal at our November meeting, and it was unanimously approved by council. [snorts] Transparency and accountability are extremely important to me and my colleagues, which is why making all of our meetings publicly available is essential. This step is especially critical in the light of recent events. A public meetings request submitted several weeks ago produced receipts, emails, and other documents that revealed certain key information had not been shared with me or with the full council and that decisions were made without council approval. And while I would like to provide more details about the manager's leave, state law currently

prevents me from doing so. However, as soon as we are legally permitted to share additional information, we will. So, before I continue, I don't know if council members have anything to add or anything to say to what I started off with. If not,

I will quickly. Okay, very quickly. First, I just want to say that I'm super excited that our new council members have joined us and welcome them. And um just just to echo what you're saying, transparency is something that h has been a priority for this council and I um our new two new council members are just starting basically now, but I I expect that will continue and I think us having this be able to be streamed is um a perfect example of our commitment to that. Thank you, Michelle. Um, as I mentioned, we will be trying to cover these four policy, five policies, uh, 143, 150, 152, 164, and 181. Uh, we're not going to go through them, uh, word for word. What we're going to do, hopefully you've read them, is basically state the purpose. I have notes. I'm assuming you have notes as well, and we'll discuss what's in her notes. So this is meant to be a discussion time. So part of what I do in my spare time is I am a consultant with an engineering firm and I have traveled around the country uh giving talks to staff and council members uh about how to work together. And I've never shared with this council what I do and I think it'd be beneficial. So I'm going to start with that. One of the things I start with in my talks is about building trust. And the first thing to and and this is to set a baseline for where we are. I'm not trying to do anything other than that. Uh trust is uh

something that is not given. It's something that is earned. Um trust is essential if we are to reach our potential as a group. Um, and if we're not reaching our potential as a group, then our staff is not going to be able to reach their potential as a group. And if we don't trust each other, the public will see that. And that's a problem that the public will not trust us as well. So, it starts with us. We have to trust each other. I like the analogy of a rope. There's seven of us and there's seven strands of this rope. And so if we have a leak, a weak link in the rope, we are not able to pull as much weight. But if we have all strands tied together and working together, we can pull a lot more weight. And so I think that's important. Briefly, I would like to mention some things that will help us be successful. First, open and honest communications. That that means share information if you got it. Follow through on your commitments. If you say you're going to do something, do it. And if you can't do it, let everybody know. uh show respect especially during disagreements. This council been has been very good at that over the years. We've never had public meltdowns like I've seen in other elected bodies. Assume good intent. Uh your colleagues want the best for Carrie just like you do. So assume that that's where they're coming from in their comments. Uh share uh goals and norms. Uh prioritize together decision making together. Practice transparency. That's what we're doing tonight. Build rapport. Get to know each other. I'm looking forward to getting to know Britney better and Bella better. We just started our relationships, but I think relationships are key to getting uh good things done. Um, use structured collaborative tools, regular check-ins. We're working with our manager now in group meetings. I think that's very positive. We're going to work to rotate these so we have

different ideas that we are all feeling and hearing. Uh if we have conflicts, we should address them early and directly. Uh I haven't had that for years, but I can tell you the month I [snorts] was elected as mayor, I sat down with two council members, and let's just say there were things said that it could not be repeated in public. But what came out of that was that we needed to communicate better. And out of that, we started contacting each other every week and they became two of my closest colleagues over the years. And you'll have to guess which ones there are. I'm not going to tell. Um, and celebrate group wins. So, when we have something that we've been successful at, let's give our colleagues credit. Let's don't take credit for ourselves. And I think those are key values uh that will help us build trust amongst oursel, with the staff, and with the public. Another slide I have is understanding council members and a lot of the council that has been seated already knows some of this. But as an elected official you are bombarded with information constantly. Different ideas, different thoughts, different values from people that you know that you don't know, people that you trust, people that you wish uh you didn't have to hear from. uh all these things are coming at you from all different directions all at once. And if you're new at this, it's very difficult to see the big picture. And previously, it was called a delegate. And that's not meant as a derogatory term. A delegate is just somebody that's dealing with so much that's so brand new and they they have a hard time getting the big picture. So that's a delegate. And then as you gain experience, you become become more of a trustee. And the way I distinguish between the two, if there's a controversial issue and I have a citizen come up to me and say, "Why are you doing this?" A delegate would

have a very tough time explaining that. A trustee could do it in an elevator speech. I understand where you're coming from and we could do that. But if we do that, these things will happen. So I think it's in everybody's best interest to do this instead. That's I only went up one or two floors in the elevator. So that's the value of a trustee. So what does that mean for all of us? I think it's important for our ourselves to understand each other where they're coming from and to help each other and that [snorts] not only from the trustees to the delegates, but the other way too. I've been doing this for 22 years. I don't know what people don't know. So, you got to ask those questions and remind me what people don't know because I can't remember. That's a long time. Uh, so I'm looking forward to the delegates with their fresh ideas, the new council members with their fresh ideas um helping us move forward and to staff. We want to be able to give clear direct uh direction as to where we are as a body. And I think if we do the trust and we understand each other and help each other then we can go that we need staff to also help uh with the newer members and we do uh provide them information and help them learn more and more as they're trying to do this all very rapidly. [laughter] So, I appreciate you letting me do part of my uh 45m minute talk that I travel around the country doing. And now we're going to get into business as unless somebody objects to what I've said so far. [laughter] Uh we are going to cover try to cover uh these four policies this even five policies this evening. It was four and then the 152 I had included in another one and that's why we have five now. Uh we'll start out with uh policy 143 and and that's rules and procedures and

it's hopefully to facilitate communications between council members and staff and provide efficient equitable procedures to follow in public meetings and provide general information and recommendations of how the council should conduct uh business. I thought the interesting things to me in this was about meetings that some of the council members may or may not know. Uh regular meetings, and this is all Jenny stuff, regular meetings have to have 48 hours notice. If we have an emergency meeting, and there are very few things that uh classify as an emergency meeting that Lisa can tell you about, uh they require six hours notice. So, that's important to know. And also important to know I wrote wrote down was that the mayor the mayor pro Tim or two council meetings two council members can call a special meeting with a 48 hour notice. Uh also I had uh the agenda is prepared by the clerk with information from council staff and commissions. Uh it's made public uh the Wednesday before a week before I don't know how to say that. eight days before the council meeting is made uh to council members so we can make adjustments and then the Friday before is made available to the public. Um we have an order of business in this policy that we follow the mayor's authority mayor pro Tim duties basically our job is to preserve decorum call a brief recess at any time and I can tell you I've only had to do that once um and and u I don't want to do it again but [clears throat] we need to provide uh a business meeting atmosphere at all times and if you feel that that's not happening please let me know uh we don't allow allow demonstrations, yelling, all this stuff at our meetings. We have business meetings. Uh, one interesting

thing that is recent, recent being within the last year, I think, is abstaining. It used to be unless you were excused, if you were abstain, if you abstain from a vote that was considered an affirmative for whatever the motion was. Now, you can abstain from reszoning votes uh without, I'll call it, penalty. uh you don't have to vote on reszonings if you don't want to. So that's the change that's happened within the last year. Was it the

last few years and we put a process in the rules so that if you're planning to abstain you need to let your fellow council members know and the clerk so that she knows how to properly record your vote. So that's discussed in the policy.

Can you talk about what that means? Let your fellow council members know like before the meeting, during the meeting, what does that mean? Um, I'll have to look and see exactly what we

People might know they want to abstain until

Right. I think the important thing is to get that noted before the vote is taken.

Okay.

So, it could

we discussed I thought we discussed last time when this topic came up that the person the council member has to call the mayor, let the mayor know and during the meeting that uh council member has to leave the chambers.

Um, not if you want to abstain you don't necessarily have to leave. Um, so I don't think we have that in the policy. I'd have to look we could we could look at exactly we could walk through the process if you'd like to.

Um,

we don't have to do it today.

Okay. So, we can take a closer look at that and then as you look at it more closely, if you see things that you think we need to tweak or change, you know, we're absolutely um these are your rules, so we're 100% open to changing anything in here on that process. But the point was just so that the clerk there needs to be some way that the clerk knows how to properly record your vote because typically if you don't vote on an item, it is a yes vote. So if you want to be clear that you're abstaining from a reasonzoning vote, we need to we need to know that for the record.

Yeah. Because we note it as abstaining.

Yes.

Those are some of the notes I took um reading policy 143. I don't know if

council members have other things they would like to talk about in that policy or questions they want to ask. If not, we'll move on. Okay, moving on. Uh 150, boards and commissions. So, there was one section in there u that I thought was interesting to me and I wanted to bring it up to council because I know there are different thoughts and practices on this. My preference when I was a liaison was to not participate in a boards and commissions uh meeting but to be present in case they had questions and then some boards and commissions want a report at the end of the meeting about what's going on. I know some other council members have done that differently. Um I would like to discuss it. I know it also says in the policy that boards and commissions can decide what they would like to do.

Uh but there is a part in there that says councils should refrain from advocating a personal perspective. And I'm wondering does that mean having part being part of the deliberation or discussion? So I'm opening that up. That was the thing that stood out to me the most as a council member. When we're at a board and commission meeting, should we not say anything? uh it's up to the board and commission but even if we are saying anything we should refrain from participating in deliberations I'm not sure what that means

I assumed that meant for a a quasi judicial board is what I when I

this policy applies to all boards and commissions

okay

and the way

understood but that part of the policy to me seemed to address a quasi judicial board deliberations and vote voting, but that was just kind of what my brain was thinking when I read it.

Okay.

Yeah. And I think if everyone's looking at the page that says element E at the

top,

um general rules of order kind of halfway down, it talks about the zoning board and other quasi judicial boards that could vary these general rules of order. Um partly because by law they would they may have to do certain procedures. Um, so really that sentence is saying the board of adjustment may be able to change some of these, but for other boards and commissions, this would be the default that's in your policy.

Um, and so it says in the next paragraph below, um, refrain from advocating a personal perspective, not included in the membership for quorum purposes, does not deliberate or vote on matters before the board, bring a fair and balanced perspective, and not impose personal biases on any of the boards. So that's the language that you all adopted um in this policy

and and I will say that I I agree with you each board is different. Sometimes they need a little bit more facilitation to get to maybe especially during work plan determination, right? A lot of them might be a little reticent to talk about what they want to do. And so it's often up to the board chair to manage that meaning and to do it well. And often in my experience, all the board chairs are phenomenal, right? They do a great job. Um, I also totally agree. I I think it's a goal it as the liaison to you're there to represent all of council. And very often in many of those meetings, they'll ask, well, what does council want? What are they looking for? Especially some of the um groups that get a direction from council. Good example of that was when um televised meeting came to the ISOB. They said um to the staff liazison Susan Moran um or who came in for that meeting and I sat there I said we want to know what you think right you and so facilitating those questions has been more the role I've seen in the past of

of the council member not to deliberate but to be able to clearly identify what the goals are and the kind of information we're looking for. So I I've never seen any council member weigh in on their own personal just trying to explain what the goals are and I think that's a good process personally

to the newer members. Do you are you confused? You you got this?

Yeah. You know my context here is having served uh on the environmental advisory board and Jack was our liaison and now I will be our liaison. So I'm very happy with that continuity. But Jack was a valued addition to the conversation and so he gave a council leaison report at the beginning of every meeting. He stayed for the entire meeting and then when appropriate he contributed to the conversation and I imagine this partially reflects the individual cultures of each board and the relationship that liaison might have with the chair. I mean the environmental advisory board at least is very uh collegial. So we we welcomed Jack's input. Um it felt appropriate that he he was there and present.

Okay.

I think that's exactly what we do in our board. Um whenever as and when it's necessary to chime in from a council perspective on why we're taking such a decision, what is the vision? That that's when I jump in. But it's the expectation of the board from me is mostly that if there is any conversation in this forum that's happening, I take their feedback and I bring it back for the entire council to consider and it's helpful to be there listening to those conversations. [clears throat]

Totally agree. I definitely think asking questions um sometimes just asking same the same as we do in in meetings other meetings sometimes even if I know think I know the answer but wonder if I'm listening

to the conversation and wonder if everybody would know then I would chime in and ask a question and you know and clarify is this what you mean by so and so and so I mean that added input there's a lot that a council liaison can contribute without bias in adding to the conversation, you know, just facilitating, not not even facilitating, but just helping the conversation continue and making sure we're getting to the answer that the board is looking for or facilitating getting them to the answer for whatever they're looking for.

Okay.

Um, uh, for my understanding is I'm maybe one of the committee's board. Um, so I'm the person trying to represent all of us, not only my opinion. So if there's a issue comes up, I need to discuss with you all and bring the council's idea to the board. That's correct. To the committee.

That is correct.

Yeah.

But I think you also have Zabua

and Zua is zoning board of adjustment. That was my board

and um that's what um Nissa was saying that in that board council does not play any role. Okay. But we can talk about that later.

Yeah, that's that's a very special board and we will do separate training for you on that board.

Oh, [laughter] that'd be great. I need a lot of training.

I think the key for me is is the value of these boards is to hear their unbiased opinion and helping them get there is is what I want to do. So, and I think we're all in agreement.

Yeah. I want to I want to share that the way I view my my role, especially with the senior advisory board. Now, I'm not a neutral, unbiased third party. I am big time pro senior and you know trying to get as much information like squeezing squeezing for more information. Um, so when I'm in that meeting, I'm listening until asked a question almost always. Um, but there is a

significant number of hey Carissa or how does this work or that kind of thing or

what's thought. So it's typically being asked a question. That being said, when it's a non senior thing like let's say staff comes for feedback on

something budget,

didn't they do?

Well, not let's let's set budget aside. Staff comes for feedback on sidewalks. Um, I might participate in the discussion. Or if they're asking for feedback on a website, um, hey, we redid this this website. what you know what do you think I might chime in there with my senior advisory board lens kind of on but otherwise I think actually I personally think that um expressing the desire and thoughts and and stuff of council of our colleagues is exactly what we should not be doing in those meetings because that I think introduces bias so I do try to you know when I when I do my liaison report it's what I think will be of interest to them what's going up what coming up um you know what events are there you know what's specific if it's the public art advisory board what art events maybe did they don't know about um but I as a general rule try to keep it to that and not completely neutral territory if that makes sense so that's that's sort of how I see the best way for us to participate in the boards um so that we don't we don't want to color the feedback we get any more than we have than we you know kind of just by being there, it's going to happen, right? They're still saying it in front of a council member.

U but by and large, I think, you know, we can become trusted with the board members.

Um but if if that's not the case, I don't know how we would know where our presence is not helping.

Anything else on this one before we move away?

Okay. I appreciate that discussion. I I got a better feel for where we all are as a group on that one.

Policy statement 152 is public records. Um gosh, Lisa's probably more efficient explaining this than I am. Uh but basically anything we do that has a fiscal record is a public record.

Well, if you consider things in the ether physical, but yes, emails, text messages, if it you still use pieces of paper, um voicemail messages, anything that's a record that has to do with the transaction of public business would be a public record. And as noted on the slide, there are some things that are confidential. It's really kind of a small list um of things, personnel documents, social security numbers, um certain information like that and everything else needs to be kept. And the good news is Jenny and her staff will do all that for you. If you're using primarily your town of Kerry uh carrync.gov email address, then Jenny and her staff are keeping track of your records, keeping them for the appropriate period of time, that sort of thing. If you're doing any business that's taking um any if a citizen contacts you because they have your personal email address, then you know we recommend moving that conversation to your town email address um and finishing the conversation that way so that it's recorded through your official town email um and to you know use text messaging um you know sparingly and for things such as confirming meeting dates and times and locations. Uh, but substantive business, it's easier to to keep for public records purposes if it's in email or other written form.

And deleting a text that's a public record is [clears throat] a misdemeanor.

Yeah, it could be. Um, certain things are considered transitory records. Again, the the types of text messages I just mentioned, like confirming a meeting, when is the meeting, where's the meeting, um, you know, or even just good to see you today kind of message.

Those are transitory and those can be deleted. They don't need to be kept. um unless we come to you and say we've had a public records request [clears throat] or a litigation hold and at that point you need to keep absolutely everything even if it could have been deleted otherwise.

Okay, that's good to know.

Lisa, can you clarify the reverse of what you said? So if you are if you get an email, let's say it's from a constituent and hey, can you help me with this ADU thing? Right, this happened. So I was like, you know what, this is a town of Kerry thing, not a Gmail thing. and I [clears throat] reply, copy my town address in, and then carry the conversation over there. Got it. Then we're covered, right?

What if it's the reverse? What if somebody emails me and invites me to their party at my town address? Is it also appropriate for me to then

forward that off to my Gmail? Yes. And then answer there. Yes.

As long as I don't delete it in the first. So, if if you're getting if you're getting completely personal emails that are just um you know, your best friend sent something to your carry email address instead of your Gmail, that would not be considered a public record if it's not talking about town business.

Okay?

So, you could delete that from your town email account. And if we had a public records request for your emails, you know, we would try to do our best to weed out anything that's truly a personal email and that is not a public record.

You want to just leave it in your email. Right.

Right.

But it's okay that Okay. Can I add another question onto that? That's ones that I've gotten. Let's say I'm invited to a political event from my town of Kerry account. You cannot do political business with government.

Yes.

Assets. So I send it

to my personal account to answer.

Yes. Yes.

Okay,

that's good.

In case you get those.

Could you clarify that for us, Lisa? What's constitutes a political communication? So, I think that things that have to do with your campaigns for office obviously or if you're participating in other people's campaigns, um whether at the local, state, federal level, those sorts of things should not be done using town resources of any kind.

And Lisa, I have a question about

nonprofit organizations. I get a lot of those where I'm the only one who's invited. I'm pretty sure everybody has those um that scenario at some point. Um, but they but Jenny kind of takes that and she puts that on on my calendar and I'm pretty sure it's the case for everyone. Is that okay?

Yes. And that typically you're being invited to that event because you are a council member. So we would consider that public record and that's why it would be on your carry calendar and those sorts of things.

Okay.

Yes.

So under ethics policy Oh, we're still on 152. Sorry, I'm getting confused with all the numbers. Any more questions on one piece?

I just have one more question because you mentioned voicemail. So if we get a constituent voicemail that's substantive, we need to retain that voicemail.

Yes.

Okay.

And if if you can retain it in various ways. If it's um saving it as a file in a, you know, out of your voicemail. And in the town of Kerry, our voicemails all go to our emails.

Um so if we get uh if we get voicemails as town employees, they are saved in an email that way. Um, so there's other ways you can save the message. If you get a substantive message like that, if you get a message from a constituent that says, "I'd like to meet with you next Tuesday," and that's a voicemail, you can delete that. Okay?

That's not there's no substantive, you know, business happening in there.

So, how long do we need to keep the voicemails? Like

retention varies. Um, I would say, and Jenny, you can help me. I mean, safe to keep it for three years. There are times when it could if it's if it's transitory like let's have a meeting you can get you can delete that.

Um but if it's anything else retention is going to be at least a year and I think typically three years.

Three years yeah is our our baseline. And voicemails you can email them to yourself. Um if you have an iPhone I'm not familiar with Joy but I do know if you get one on your iPhone you can email it to your town to retain through that way.

Okay.

So you're not having to keep three years of voicemails in your voicemail. Right.

Okay. That's the the appropriate way.

Any other questions about this policy?

No questions. But I I think I may have mentioned to you in conversations previously, but I have friends all the time that just think nothing of texting and saying like, I have a question about so and so. And I will say stop [laughter] michelle.c craig, you know. because they're they're thinking they're calling calling or asking their friend a question or I get it on social media or whatever and I just I try to just stop it and try to get them to send it to town because it you no matter how it starts, you never know how the conversation's going to end and it's just so much easier to keep it.

Yeah.

But um but your friends are going to your friends are going to text you and ask you things [laughter]

and it feels kind of awkward. I had my pastor do something similar and I had to forward it and answer Mr. So and so [laughter] like you know but I get what you're saying. Yep.

So uh what if someone asked me a question in a group chat it's but it's it's not a like we cannot record it or so I just let them send to my town's email.

Yes. ask them to send it um ask them to send it to your town email address and tell them that's the best way for you to respond to that

so I can share all the town's events and some like news like to the groups that should be fine because I'm just sharing the

um information.

Yes, it's kind of like I don't know mayor if you have the next slide about social media if you kept that one in or not. I don't know if you did.

Oh you did. So, group chats count as social media, not

Well, no, I was going to use it as an example of um of you know, forwarding things that are just you're forwarding Carrie put something out and you're just forwarding you're just forwarding something directly from Carrie.

Um then that would I would consider that

a transitory record because you're not making any policy pronouncements or make you know stating any facts about it. You're just saying, you know, the Christmas tree lighting is Saturday night at 6:00. Um, so those would really be transitory messages. So you could send those in a in a group chat and then delete them later. Um, and then u I was thinking about social media in that way because that's really the safest thing to do with your social media accounts as well is to if you're going to talk about town business that way is to really just forward the other posts that Carrie puts out in his own social media channels. Um, and so then that way you're you're just kind of repeating you're giving Carrie information out to folks. If you start engaging in deeper discussion on your social media pages about town of Kerry business, then you're going to have records retention requirements um and uh and things that go along with your social media account that just make it more complicated to run a social media account. So,

policy 164, ethics for town council. Let's see. Did I have Yeah. Um, training is required within the first 12 months. Um, and there's policy 164. One of the things you're going to find out about following the law, a lot of this is common sense, but the example they give in the school of government classes that I loved, they go, uh, you're the mayor and your daughter's boyfriend dumped her, so you called the police officer and had him arrested for speeding. Don't do that.

You're outside your scope as mayor and now you're personally liable.

U so just keep that in mind until you get to class. Do anything outside what's the scope of your office and you're personally liable. So that that was the one thing I had a big take [cough] away from that. We had you'll love these classes. They they sit on the desk and talk to you

and it's just all of us asking questions and it was a lot of fun. Was that your

experience? Yeah.

Yeah. And if possible, I would suggest not taking it on the webinar, but actually going.

Yeah,

because it's much more interactive and an opportunity to hear a variety of discussions and hear various people's thoughts on it too.

Yeah, if we started during COVID then you might not have had the chance to do that before. Those were only webinar. There are some classes that are free and there are some classes that are you have to pay like nominal amount but it's good to be there and understand what other municipalities are doing because there are other leaders as well and uh good information. I took some and I thought that was very helpful.

Great.

And ethics classes are required after every election for any council member no matter how long they've been here.

Right. So that means Cararissa has to redo it within 12 months.

Yeah, Cararissa, [laughter]

I see the joy in your face.

To clarify, you mean when you are reelected? Like, not after an election like this weekend. I don't need to go. Okay, check out.

So, [laughter] Carissa, Britney, and Bella all need to do this within 12 months of December.

I say that, but I'd go back to school today if I could. I'll love it once I get there.

Okay. Anything else about ethics? Now 181 conflicts of interest get policy for federal procurement

and can I mention one thing about this one mayor the policy you'll mention you'll notice is talked um mentions federal procurement we um were required to adopt this as part of getting ARPA funds a few years back dur during co we already have state laws that govern this and so we did the policy because the federal government wants you to say you have a policy and you check it off We were already required to do all these things under state law. And so the policy, the title is federal, but it applies to everything that you do. And the state laws that you need to comply

with are mentioned in this policy as well. And this will also be discussed in the training that you are um that you're offered. So

So in there it talks about nominal gifts and that's a $25 amount.

So anything over that. So if somebody wants to buy me dinner and we're at an an at an expensive restaurant, now I've exceeded the nominal fee.

Right.

So,

right. And nominal it really is meant to cover things like you go to a conference and they have pens and pads of paper or little things that they give away. Um it's really meant to say you don't have to, oh, I can't take that pen. you know, it's really meant to say, yeah, you can take the little things that like everybody else at the conference or the event gets a little, you know, kind of souvenir that's of nominal value and they kind of put that $25 amount on there as a guideline, but it's meant to cover really small, you know, items like that.

So, what if you've had your best friend for life, he's been buying you dinner every week, now he can't buy you dinner?

Well, that's not true. So there is an exception for um there's an exception in the laws for you know your best friend can still give you a birthday present that sort of thing. It's not meant to cut off all your personal relationships with folks. Um so that's talked about in the laws as well.

Yeah.

Any other questions?

How about the council members? We are good friends. Can I [laughter] can I buy her dinner or give her Christmas gift?

Yes.

But not buying her to vote along with me.

Right. [laughter] You're doing it as a friend and as a relationship. Yes.

Okay. I don't need dinners. [laughter]

And then we gave some of the rules on voting here, which are some of them in the conflicts of interest statutes, some of them in the zoning statutes about different times when you when your financial interest or your relationship with someone involved would preclude you from being able to vote on a matter. And and that was really interesting when Jennifer and I both worked at SAS and SAS would have something come forward and the advice I always got unless I

benefit personally from it,

right?

It's not a problem, it's not a conflict, But we would uh and we talked about this um I've talked about this I think with all of you when you've had your orientation but it's uh what we advise um is that you heir on the side of just disclosing if there's anything that looks like a potential conflict of interest or what the phrase that we use and we say this to the board and commission members as well is to avoid the appearance of impropriy um is just to disclose and to say I don't have a close familial relationship with this applicant but I've known them since they were three you know we went to grade school together just to put that out there so that it's on the table. It doesn't mean you can't vote, but you're being open and honest about, you know, um the fact that yes, I've known that person for a long time or, you know, whatever the issue is and just so we u recommend just disclosing that so that there's no questions.

Lisa, what are the consequences of um violations?

That can vary

on ethics and on gifts and favors. Um, I'll break it into a few categories. On if you if a council member votes on something where they had a conflict of interest, it could void the vote and mean like the vote essentially never happened. Um, on the ethics and conflicts of interest, sometimes there are criminal penalties depending on exactly which piece has been violated. So, misdemeanor or other um criminal charges could be brought.

Any other questions about this policy? Does this also get reported to the League of Municipalities

because we take their ethic training?

Oh, right. Right. So, I think the ethics training and the fact that you take the training, Jenny has to record it and keep a record of it in case that that's asked for by anyone in the future. Do you turn it into anyone or you just keep the record? Yeah.

To their their files with HR.

Yes.

Okay. We've gone over five policies. I'm opening up the floor to anything you

want to talk about related to policies. These policies. Wow, that went a lot faster than I thought it would. [laughter] I thought it would go quick, but not that quick. [clears throat] So, if we have no other questions about those policies, then I would ask for a motion to go into close session.

I can do the motion. I just I just read [laughter]

I get to do my first

like, "Oh my gosh, how am I going to do it?" [laughter]

Yeah, because you're sick. I'm like, "I can do it." Okay.

So, please tell me if I'm doing anything wrong.

You'll do great.

Throwing the coffee at me.

Okay. Pursuant to GS143-318.11a 1 3 and 6, I move that we hold a close session to consult with attorneys employed by and or retained by the town in order to preserve the attorney client privilege between the attorneys and the town. Prevent the disclosure of information that is made privileged or confidential pursuant to the laws of the state, including GS143-318.10. 10 E or not considered a public record within the meaning of chapter 132 of the general statutes. Um consider the qualifications, competence, performance, character, fitness, conditions of appointment or conditions of initial employment of one or more individual public officers or employees.

There is a motion. Is there a second?

Second.

There is a second. Discussion.

All in favor, please say I. I.

Any oppose? Motion carries unanimously and we are moving into close session.

We're going to stay here. We're going to clear the room. Um, put a hold on the live

So we'll reconvene our council meeting at this time. We have no other business this evening. So I would entertain a motion to adjurnn.

So moved.

There's a motion. Second and a second. Discussion. All in favor, please say I. I. Any oppos? Motion carries. We are adjourned.