Board of Commissioners Regular

Good evening. Welcome to the Episcopal Board of Commissioners meeting for July 14th, 2025. And I will call this meeting to order. And we'll start with a moment of silence. Thank you. Commissioner Ferrell, will you lead us in the pledge of

allegiance? May one rise for the flag to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for it stands for one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice.

Thank you. We have the regular agenda and the consent agenda this evening. Are there any changes to the regular or consent agenda?

Yes. I would like to request two items be pulled from consent uh for conversation later this evening. Uh the Duke Energy Grant and the installment loan financing line item. And uh I'd appreciate if we could address the installment loan financing first and then talk about the Duke energy grant second.

Okay.

Um what number is that? Those are number five and number six on the consent.

So we'll make the uh number five. We'll make number action item 12 and we'll make or sorry number the installment financing will make action item 12. And then the Duke Energy Grant will make action 13. Is there any

other changes? Okay. Take a motion to approve the regular agenda. So move.

Thank you, Commissioner Bonds. Is there a second? Second. Commissioner Vos. Uh, all those in favor say I. I.

Thank you. I'll take a motion to approve the amended consent agenda.

Second.

Thank you, Commissioner Frell. Second, Commissioner Bonnets. All those in favor?

I.

Thank you.

Okay. Uh we don't have any information items this evening. So, up next is a ceremonial item. It's a resolution for the Kowanas Club. So, if I can have uh some representatives or all y'all join me at the podium up here. Let's face this way and then the camera can get in.

See if I break this off here.

Hello. Hello. So this is a resolution celebrating the 75th anniversary of the Pittsburgh Kanas Club. Whereas Kowanas International is a worldwide service organization with more than 600,000 members worldwide, including adult and youth members across various Kowanas family programs. And whereas the Carolina's district of Kuanas is made up of more than 4,200 adult members and 130 clubs throughout North and South Carolina. And whereas the Pittsboro Kan Club first met on March 23, 1950 as a result of the efforts of John Bell, Cleveland Lindsay, Baxter Rigby, and Lacy Troder and other publicspirited members of the community.

And whereas Pittsburgh Kowanas Club celebrated its 75th anniversary on June 14th, 2025 at its clubhouse on Creedle Street. And whereas the Pittsburgh Kowanas Club has worked at the NC State Fair since 1964 to raise significant funds for community causes, including scholarships for high school seniors and CCCCC students. And whereas the Pisro Kanas Club has worked diligently for seven and one half decades on behalf of this community in various charitable organizations recently including Feedwell Bridges, Northwood FFA, C4th Key Club, Camp Kissum, Woods Charter School, Second Bloom, and Woodshed Arts. And whereas the Pittsburgh Kowanas Club of Pittsburgh has initiated and supported many projects in our community, including the Kowanas Playground Park. And whereas the members of our Kowanas Club have given of themselves in community and civic service on a volunteer basis. And whereas the Kowanas Club is specifically dedicated to working with our youth, giving them a sense of belonging, leadership, self-esteem, and responsibility by sponsorship of the key clubs at Northwood and Seth high schools. Now therefore, it resolved that the board of commissioners of the town of Pittsboro does hereby recognize and commend the members of the Pittsburgh Kanas Club who have worked so faithfully and given so generously to establish and maintain this civic organization for more than seven decades of service to the Pittsburgh community. Uh so I'll take a motion to approve this.

Make a motion to approve the resolution second. All those in favor say I. Hi class.

A copy of this. Thank you. We got one more. Thanks.

Good guys.

Okay, up next we have Citizens Matters and we'll start with the town managers update. No update. So, I'll turn it over to Colobby for his uh report on the storm. Mayor, commissioners, good evening. Um, Colobby Sawer, your communications and emergency management for the town. Want to start off by saying thank you as always for not only the support of my position in my department, but for all of our town staff and all of our departments. Uh, a couple things I want to cover tonight. Uh, regarding Shantel, I'd like to talk about just a brief synopsis of what happened, thought was going to happen, what actually happened, how we prepared, responded, are now moving into recovery, and how we hope to mitigate against these types of things in the future. If you have any questions, I I would ask that you hold them unless they're pressing because as we move through, I may end up answering your question in the next section, but of course, if something comes up, feel free. So Shantel was a impact that was not supposed to happen. Uh the first uh idea that we had something maybe brewing was actually on June 29th. And at 8:00 that morning, there was a low pressure system off the coast. It was stalled there. If you remember a couple days before the weekend, we had some couple days of some messy weather. That was a low pressure system that moved over us and it just got hung up out there. Normally they

just die out, but over the the warm waters of the Gulf Stream, it was able to actually grow up. But it but it had almost no chance of making it. It was 0% chance of development within the next couple days, only a 20% and in fact the next day they actually reduced the probabilities down to only 10% chance of development in the next 7 days. Uh by Wednesday, we were still at 0% chance within the next 2 days. And uh by Thursday is when we actually got to a 20% chance. Um so come Friday about 2:00 p.m. tropical depression 3 did form. It was uh forecast to be very weak to stay off the coast. Um even though the the center of the low pressure was supposed to move up east of Raleigh, it wasn't really a problem because the eastern side of the storm was always the most significant side and it was weak as it was. So pretty much all the effects were going to stay off of the coast. And it wasn't until Saturday morning that we actually saw the center and majority of impacts start moving up through the center center part of of the state through Chattam County specifically. So it was uh it was 5:00 that evening on Saturday that we first saw that. We had our first briefing sent at about 6:00 that evening that was sent to the leadership and operations team here at the town. Uh we talked about how we were going to respond, how we were going to prepare, what we were going to do, but at that time the best forecast was equivalent to a couple thunderstorms. We were supposed to get a couple heavy summer thunderstorm type rains over a 12-h hour period, and it would be going by the morning. Um in fact Saturday afternoon uh the the reasonable worst case scenario the worst case model showed us about 3.9 in of rain maximum and that was that was the 90th percentile. By the next morning it actually reduced

the reasonable worst case was only 3.1 in and it just um it just kept moving up. Um, at the time as the storm was moving through the southern part of the state in South Carolina, it was it was verifying exactly what they were forecasting in those areas is what they were seeing. Three to to 4ish in. And so that evening about 4:00, it started raining pretty good. Um, about as much as we expected, but there was no really issues, no flooding reports down in town. Uh, one tree fell outside of the town. I think there may have been a wreck. And by 5:00 p.m., Oakwood and Thompson were flooded in their normal spots. Nothing beyond what we see during a normal rainstorm. But then it didn't stop raining. And so by 6:30, calls started coming in all over the county. Water rescues, trees down, wrecks. Um, our staff were out responding to calls, our police officers checking roads, checking vehicles. The fire department was out answering calls. Um, I was out in the town answering uh answering some calls. I went out, I spoke with some individual property owners who've had flooding concerns in the past, tried to document the flooding that they were seeing so that we would have some some support as we pursued funding for mitigation and resilience and whatnot. We could show photographically and in video what was happening. And by 8:00, we had multiple roads under water. Pittsburgh Elementary School, pretty sure you couldn't run a boogie board across the road. We had houses on lockdown road some businesses all were were underwater and that stayed until about 1:00 a.m. when water started to recede and we actually moved right into damage assessment. So what we did to prepare was the same thing we would do for any storm of the magnitude we were forecast. We checked our small engines, our small equipment,

our chainsaws, our trucks, our things like that. Um, we put some additional staff on call and we started our routine of daily briefings twice a day from Raleigh, four times a day from the National Hurricane Center. Um, once it started off, um, we did call in the on call public works and parks and recck staff. Uh, we called in additional police officers. Uh we established a command structure in the town by which to to operate um as we as we managed our incident and we started triaging those calls that we were receiving. Sending teams to those that were the highest priority, getting roads blocked, getting uh assessing whether or not reports of flooded roads, flooded structures, flooded houses were were valid. And once things started to settle down enough and we had a grip on what was happening in the town, we started being able to put out actual messaging that said something other than it's raining because at prior to about 1:00, all we knew was it was raining and it was flooded everywhere. So, um what you may if you live in you all live in town, but there was uh probably a large number of alerts that came to your phones. Those were wireless emergency alerts. They're actually pretty rare to be issued outside of tornado, flash flood, and amber alerts. Those are the three most typical things. Chadam County actually issued two civil danger warnings that night encouraging people to stay off the roads to shelter in place. The National Weather Service issued at least four and then we followed up the local messaging with the Code Red system, which is the system you subscribe to, to get additional information. So, we pushed a lot of information out out that way. Um, as we continued on, the water receded. We started doing damage assessment almost immediately that night. Our public works and parks and w group rode every road in town, searching for any unknown problems, searching for anything

immediate that we needed to take care of. The next morning, we began meeting with property owners, occupants who had reported or who had obvious flooding. and middle of the week, public works, engineering and myself rode every town again in the daylight trying to see if we could assess damage and start documenting. We also published a form on the town website uh for reporting any damages. That's to help us collect data and to um access some some resources for folks. That's uh pittsboronc.gov/shan tall. Pittsburghc.govshan tall. If you would please help message that, amplify our message. We have it on our website and on our social media so people know they can get go there to get more information and to fill out that damage uh report. Um, one of the most significant pieces of damage that we did experience uh to town infrastructure was the walking bridge at the town lake park. About half of it moved probably 100 ft from where it's supposed to be and is currently in a jumbled mess uh downstream. Um so that area will be closed for quite some time. We are working with our insurance providers on trying to figure out exactly how much damage was done up there to that bridge to the parking lot of Diane Street. We lost uh the bench and the bike rack up there, Diane Street on that side of the town lake and we had a quite a bit of uh quite a bit of damage in the woods as well. So, we're working with insurance on that. So, with all of that being said, there are some things we're already doing to try to help with some of these issues. So, as you know, we are well underway with the Oakwood Drive uh culvert replacement project. I think we're on track for substantial completion by the end of the year. Is that right, Kent? Substantial completion of that by the end of the year, which will more than two and a half times increase the capacity of that car to be able to handle water without flooding Oakwood. Of course, we are trying to figure out the Pittsburgh Road bridge. Um, one of

the things that went really well this time was our staff who came in. Uh, they went right into work. They ingrained right in the incident command system that we trained. Uh, everything honestly went about as good as could be expected at 10:00 at night when you have just been surprised. Um, and when a good number of your staff are on vacation. Um, so we did recognize the need for additional barricades, some additional signage. Those have been ordered to help us be able to close more roads um to be able to be able to put more signage out when we have impacts. And uh the last piece is it just so happens that last week we had our kickoff meeting for the Capefar regional hazard mitigation plan which is a plan we have to update every 5 years. Those are where we identify the actions that we intend to take over the next five years to mitigate against hazards and the funding stream essentially. That's what unlocks a lot of the funding streams for these types of projects. So that process is well underway. Um none of this could have been done without the staff. the police department, fire department, first EMS, public works, parks and wreck, engineering inspections, downtown planning, Chattam County Emergency Management. Everybody played a role in responding to the town that night. They were uh they were incredibly busy and we made the best of of what we had. That's what I have for you this evening. If you have any questions for me,

thank you to all staff and community members that all jumped in and and helped everybody out during this time. Um like you said it was a particular surprise I think and um I think everybody came together really well for that. So

I should add that we had expected 3.1 in as a worst case and Pittsboro and Mean were tied for the heaviest of rains the most rain which was but based on radar estimates somewhere between 11 and 12 and a half inches.

That's just amazing.

Profound.

Do you know where approximately most of

the damage occurred

the majority? So for what we were able to observe, the majority of property damage seemed to occur um along Lul Street, Pittsburgh School Road um in that area where all the water from the lake and from Robersonson Creek up all funnels down before it goes under Sanford Road. Um, we know there was significant flooding on 87 south on the back side of the town lake and of course we had some some infrastructure damage some different places. Some driveways wash out, some some manhole or potholes open up and things like that, but those were pretty scattered.

How far over the dam do you think that the water was?

So, I did not get a chance to get up there and look at it um as it was going, but The last rain, heavy rain event we had that caused flooding, um, it was over topping it pretty good and it didn't move that bridge and this one took that bridge, took it apart and carried it down the river, including a bike rack, a bench, some other things. So was down there about midnight, maybe it's 12:30, and the water was up to the gate

and it's a few feet

a few feet above the next.

And previously I had only the last storm, last hurricane that came through, it was about halfway up the little parking lot that we had built. So substantially higher, at least a foot. Um I I'd love to talk about storm water damage but I don't think this is the right time. Uh I I do feel u two two items that we should talk about that is Salsbury Street right by Rectory that one home. I'm not going to name the home but it's uh where the culvert is. If you're standing on that culvert, it's six to eight feet straight down with probably a two foot shoulder. So that's a safety issue. If anybody

looks at their text, they're flipping over the side of the road and they're dropping six feet. So it's something to have the town take a look at.

Are you referring?

You know where I'm talking about, right?

Johnston. Okay.

Yeah. It's a profound erosion right there. I just like it took my breath away. And on the down seat downstream side of the uh the road um the the sewer and the water um pipes are exposed.

Yeah. But that's been there. But uh something to look at. That's a safety issue. Maybe orange tape for now. But we need to make sure that if a bicyclist and a car are on that street at the same time, someone's going to tumble over that side. And the other the other issue I have safety wise is the bin bridge. Have we I know uh it's not part of the town, but one connection side does butt up to the town. Is that correct? Or is that state park right there? the bin a bridge.

The the set side is going to be in the state park in the states right away in their easement. I believe

the reason I bring up buying a bridge is I remember glancing to my right. I was heading out of town and I saw a enormousized tree horizontal 6 ft above the water. There's probably damage to that bridge and we have foot traffic on that bridge and it I don't know if it's been addressed. I don't know if this is the place to talk about that notify, but it's something that we we need to check on before anybody steps foot on that bridge. We need to make sure it's safe.

Certainly pass that along to the

You know, you saw where the water was from Yeah.

to the bottom of the bridge.

Yeah. It was amazing.

Those roads on both sides are state roads at the state bridge.

State. Okay. So, those are the two

safety issues. I would love to talk about storm water and I think I'll put it in an email to the the town engineering staff. So, other questions, Colby.

Thank you, sir.

Good job.

We'll go to mayor and commissioner updates now. I will start with mine for ribbon cutings. We had a a first for me anyway. We had two on the same day. So, we had our uh second on June 25th, we had our second ABC store and then we also had a Radiance RX uh skin care uh which is at Mosaic and uh I think the second ABC store was the first ribbon cutting I've been to where people camped out overnight for the ribbon cutting.

Um I think it was for ribbon cutting, not for the bourbons, but um there was there was people camped out overnight for that. So, uh, June 14th, we had the Quanis 75th anniversary at the Kuanas Park. So, that was a good good time. And week of June 23rd, there was climate action plan, uh, meetings at the community house. And I just want to commend staff on that. That was really wellrun. I think we got a lot of good feedback through those events. So, appreciate that. And then uh June 26th I had a meeting with the Department of Commerce about Main Street and I got some really really positive feedback from them about Main Street and everything we're doing there. So appreciate staff and uh and everyone involved there uh with the Main Street program. on uh July 7th, we had the uh Triangle Business Journal Corridors opportunity event uh here in this room and uh full room from a lot of people all around in a in a panel discussion about Pittsburgh and um we managed to talk about some things that weren't Disney or sewer. So a couple good things there. Um and then actually uh last night I attended a uh session of the Hunt State Policy Fellows which is a training I did

last year and then there's a like alumni return event for that. So uh good good event there focused on uh education generally in North Carolina. um EDC, the Economic Development Corporation's uh changing their meetings a little bit. So, it'll be more like quarterly for those of us that are representatives and not not board members. Um so, we'll we'll uh work on on that new schedule. And then last but not least for me, this isn't a resolution because she would kill me, but Carrie is now a North Carolina certified municipal clerk as of July 8th. really appreciate you and everything you do for us in the town. So,

Mayor Proen Baldwin.

Yes. Thank you. In terms of the Central Pines Regional uh Council uh Executive Committee meeting was held on June 25th, 2025. We discussed highlights and issues around the region and we also uh completed the executive director's review performance review which of course that's personal so we can't discuss it. Then uh Lee Horley who is the executive director, he sent an email around indicating for any of the town managers or assistant managers that would that were in the flood region that they could have a roundt to discuss ways that the central pines regional council can assist them in trying to resolve issues regarding regarding the flooding and and the western part of state. So those are the only two things I have with that. The next meeting will not be held until August because we are on the small we don't have a July meeting but we'll have one August.

Okay. Thank you.

Thank you.

Yes. Thank you. The U main update is

from the Chattam County Climate Change Advisory Committee. Last meeting June 26th was focused mainly on discussions of how best to support the county commissioners, the county board in preparations for their climate change retreat. and they were talking about an all day session. So, I thought that was noteworthy. And in a related vein, but from a Pittsburgh perspective, I want to take a moment to give high praise to town staff for um their work in preparing our own climate action plan. And I understand that the survey earned 734 responses and um 253 of those were in town. Uh it's a lot of work and I'm just really pleased with the result and the the positive feedback from the community and so kudos to all the staff that pitched in for that.

Thank you.

Thank you, Commissioner Farah.

Nothing at this time. Thank you. Thank you, Commissioner F.

I, as an anonymous uh citizen, filled that survey.

Not anymore.

Not anymore. No. uh the affordable I'm a member of the affordable housing advisory committee in Chattam County uh which did not meet so I have nothing to report there and uh I am busy right now with finance education I'm taking some league of municipalities classes courses on municipal finance and uh reconciliation that's that's what Foley's doing I have no update to see okay thank Okay, up next we have the public comment session. Uh, please state your name and address at the start of your comments. There's a time limit of 3 minutes which will be displayed on the screen. In the interest of time and fairness, it's the board's policy not to respond directly to comments during this period, but staff will follow up as appropriate. So,

we have uh six people signed up uh tonight. We'll start with uh Amanda Robertson and then go to Chad Stoners. Thank you. Um and colleagues, I will apologize in advance. I'm still struggling from some surgery this summer that impacts my lungs, so I might start coughing and I apologize for that. Um my name is Amanda Robertson. I live in the ETJ at 244 Prince Creek here in Pittsburgh. Um, Shantel came into Chattam County last week and wreaked havoc. A lot of residents and businesses suffered. We fared far better than Chapel Hill, though. That's because we don't yet have the level of development that they have in Chapel Hill. This is only going to get worse. Climate change is here and is it's not going to go away in our lifetimes. These big storms form because the air is hotter. Warm air can hold a lot more moisture. It will hold it and hold it and hold it until all of the sudden it just gets so full it just comes down at once wherever it happens to be. And that happens in the summer and that happens in the winter. You may remember several years ago we had 15 ft of snow drop up in New England several times after Helen hit western North Carolina last September. Most of us probably acknowledged that a storm like this was going to come to us eventually. For many, it was a shock that Helen didn't hit us instead of western North Carolina as I did. And Shantel wasn't a Helen. Thank goodness we all may yet have time to make better decisions in our storm water management. And I'm not referring just to our governing bodies like the town of Pittsburgh and Syler City and Chad County or even just our citizens and businesses who must also prepare, but I'm also speaking about developers.

They too must step up their game whether they are required to or not. And yes, that includes Chattam Park. We are all in this together. I live in Pittsboro in the ETJ in the neighborhood of Prince Creek. We are all surrounded by Chattam Park, arguably on four sides. And we are also downhill from their development called North Village. Shantel brought more water than my neighbors have ever seen in our neighborhood before. People have lived there for 40 years or more. It washed our road out, which we had all just regled regraveled at a cost of over $15,000 last fall. And I can tell you that a good bit of the water and the silt in the water came rushing down the hill from Chattam Park. It polluted Prince Creek and Rebison Creek and the Hall River and Jordan Lake. And I know this because my husband and I live right next door to Chattam Park and that huge enormous pile of dirt that has been built up for their soccer fields up there by the Y. And after the storm had huge gouges where all that dirt washed down into our neighborhood and into these water bodies below. We all need to care for the future that all of us have to live in. It is getting challenging and it isn't going to get any easier. I hope we all take better care in our development decisions than our neighbors.

Thank you.

Up next is Chad Ston, followed by Robert Pendergr. Hello, my name is Chad Sex. Uh, residents here been here for probably 48 49 years at the same residence, 428 NC Highway 902. My driveway is probably 200 yards from the entrance of the town park. And over the last 10 years, I think they had a grant to go in to grow to fix the town park. And they needed to

get the seal and all that out which they had engineers come in because I was down there recently watching. And what they did was basically fill the lake back in and put waterfalls in and rocks. So everything is backing up and it's getting worse every year. The company that was doing it said that the town they was supposed to do maintenance on it every year. So, I was want to know if it's been done every year. To me, probably not. Looks getting worse every year. This last incident, which come I sent him the pictures, uh, I probably got about 125 $30,000 worth of damage to materials at my house from this storm and it's getting worse to the point of something's got to be done. You know, uh, the last hurricane was Fran, I guess, where it was the highest I've ever seen. This last time was the highest I've ever seen. From where the end of that flood zone was, it's probably 8t higher water. And so, the water has nowhere to go. And they had a spillway that was removed when they done all that work years ago. So, I was wanting to know what's going to be done about it. Something needs to be done about it. It's to the point of, you know, it's unbearable. And I think last year they fixed a spillway, something like a some kind of emergency valve. And can anybody can explain what that is to me because nothing was done with it. Last year when they had that hurricane, they called me and told me that they had uh pumps on standby in case they needed it. I hadn't heard anything was nothing was done this time. So I'm asking is can that be fixed to fix you know what's going on and far as the trains and stuff it needs

to be dread it needs all the sudden needs to be out it's filling in and it's going to get worse downtown everything else because that's where it start so that's what you know what basically I'm here today to my concern you know whether I'm one or two people you This is,

you know, the last commission or whatever, whoever was that was, he was, it's the finger pointing going on now that does nothing for me, you know, just like anybody else's house. They want it fixed. So, that's why I'm here. So, I would like to He's got my email and I would like to, you know, find out what's going on. Thank you.

Thank you. Uh, up next is Robert Pendergraph, followed by Linda, I think. Yes. Okay.

This is my first time having put up with a lot of stuff over the years from the flooding. I know I live in a flood plane. They said I lived in a flood plane, but then they turn around and say, "I'm not in a flood planes." You know, depends on the money. The money they want. You know, my insurance company says you need a money for the flood plane. The mortgage company said, "No, you need you need the money for the flood plane." Then next says they don't need the money for the flood flood plane. So, nobody tells me uh whether I'm in a flood plane or not, but I got flood plane plans. And what my biggest problem is, I got a shop down there with a lot of electrical stuff in there. I do hobby work. It's totally gone. Worthless. I had 8 ft of water in my shop, like two car ports. I had stuff there that I was going to use totally gone, wasted. And I understand that this lake over here, there used to be uh the town that owned it. Now all of a sudden, they don't own it. The 4H owns it. Then all

of a sudden, who I don't know who owns it anymore. And I've been there since 1987. I just like to like this guy right here, Chad. I would like to get this thing fixed. I mean, what's it going to take? Is anybody even on it? NC State, they're the ones that put this project in down there. Oh, we're going to make it nice. We're going to see what this environmental stuff is. Never heard nothing after that. Now we're stuck with it. me, him, and this lady behind us are stuck with it because we're not in the city limits. We're in the county. Who owns that property over there? That's what I'd like to know. If anybody can give me an answer, I I'd appreciate it.

What is your address?

My address is 444 NC Highway, 902. I'm two houses away from the Robinson Creek Bridge. Now, I've had nothing but trouble there since I've lived there.

Okay. If you can um make sure we've got your information and staff will follow up with you on those answers.

I call the United Way the 221 number. They going to get up with me. Nothing. I've got a mess down here and I I'm 75 years old. I can't do it. I can't clean this mess up. I need help. That's all I'm going to say.

Thank you. staff will follow up.

Hi, how are you? My name is Linda Spataphora. You were afraid of that name.

Just make sure I was reading it right here.

I recently moved from New York. That's two.

Sorry. Address 76 Prospect Place, Pittsboro.

I recently moved from New York to retire in Encore at Chatter Park. And so I'm representing a bunch of people who live there. And um we've realized that the water bill comes, it's $42 before you flush the toilet, before you have a drink of water. So like this month, my bill was $95. It's me and my husband. That's insane. You came here from the north to save money. Everybody's in the same boat. Everybody's retired, living on fixed incomes. And there's going to be $350 houses. They get $100 to start as a a an initiation fee. That's $35,000 they're going to have. Then $500 a year with that $42 from every household every year till you live you don't live there anymore. That's a lot of money. That's crazy. So we got to see if they can give seniors a break. Why should we pay an extra $42 every month just to have the service and then they'll raise the rates and we won't be able to fight that. So, I'm I'm just trying to see who to see. I called everybody and they told me to come here and so I'm hoping that somebody here can figure it out and give the seniors a break and I even have time. Um, so that's it. I just say what I have to say and somebody will get back to me.

That's correct. Yeah.

Okay. Thank you so much.

Thank you. Uh, up next is James, followed by Kimberly.

You're okay.

Um, and up next, uh, Kimberly.

Give me a second here. Um, I am the neighbor of the nice gentleman in the back who actually I'll say I wasn't prepared for this storm. I'm sure a lot of people weren't. I was in I heard a phone call that said we're supposed to have flooding. I said, "Okay, well, I'm fine." Um, blessed by the Scott family, my backyard is fairly safe from a lot of these floodings. I'm I'm also on uh 902 there. I watched the water creep up from um this gentleman's property and end up in my crawl space. I have a question. I'm going to take this a different direction. I know most of you, so I'm going to take this different approach. How many of you are parents? Seriously, how many of you are parents? How many of you are watch the the incident in Texas and watch children get flush away? How many of you are single parents who live by yourself who watch the water crawl up to your crawl space when you've never had a flooding issue? I was that person. Now, I know um many of you are transplants. Many of you aren't from this area. Your mother's house is behind my mother's house. It took me 45 minutes to get from my house on 902 to my mother's house because I was so afraid to be in my home because that young little boy in Hipman shirt back there was terrified crying because we just talked about watching little girls get flush away in Texas. We have had the conversation of what do we do if there's a flood? Not that it'll ever happen. I realized last week, oh the highest point is Rosco Ferrell's house. I am I am probably a 10% grade from him. If the water gets to my house, it gets to his house. We are trapped. Um I do have the great pleasure of living next to these gentlemen who do watch out for me and do take care of us. What do you do when your neighbor's body is drowning and that is who's supposed to take care of you in this kind of situation? Right. I got in my car. I drove around. Tornado warning. Go back

home. Sit in my house. Watch the water come into my crawl space. Got to get out of here. Trees are down. Can't get down 902. I am here because I emailed or I posted something on on Facebook. This gentleman um Mr. Bonets responded saying that, you know, well, there's not much we can do, but here's a survey on Chattam Park. Chattam Park doesn't have anything to do with this. This is the issue with the drudging in Town Lake Park. Now, my background is community management. I've communi I've managed large scale communities. I currently manage Chapel Ridge. I don't have to tell most of you that that's a chore that I'm understanding the drainage issues in the area. Right? So if I'm aware enough to understand the concept of of a reserve studies, understand the concept of an engineer, understand the concept of a strip and I have this baseline level of of education on this, why don't you? Why is it that you guys aren't doing more to prioritize the reserve funding for this community to prepare them for situations like this? This is not the last one of these we're going to have. So what is being done to prioritize financing? Because I heard you guys talk about a retreat. Where's that funding coming from? Is that coming from the tax dollars that would protect my home? Because right now I've got four dehumidifiers in my crawl space.

Is that your time?

Is that being paid for by your retreat? Those are my questions. That's what I

You say your address, too.

Yeah. 404 NC592. I look next to you 44 chat. I don't know your address, but thank you guys. You have good. Thank you. Okay, thank you. Uh, up next we have two public hearings. The first is a annexation petition for Randdale Farms LLC, uh, A202501 and PB25242. I'll take a motion to go into public

hearing.

So moved.

Thank you, Mayor Proen Baldwin. Second.

Second. Commissioner votes. All those in favor say I. I.

Good evening. Uh in your packet, you will have a copy of the annexation petition, vicinity map, legal description of the property, preliminary annexation plat, certificate of sufficiency from the clerk, and ordinance to extend the corporate limits uh with exhibits A and B. This is the property Ranzel Arms LLC uh has submitted for a voluntary contiguous annexation. It's 33.528 acres at Old Graham Road between Oakwood Drive and Brookstone Lake. And previously when I was in here, we were having a conversation about Corbin and what this is. There we go.

Thanks. There any questions? I I do have some questions. The topic tonight is obviously the the the storm that we experienced and the back our uh section of this property is downhill and uh and it was contributor to Oakwood Drive's flooding. Uh it will be I I assume if if we cut the trees down. So can we talk about the mitigation that the uh the the builder would like to uh promise? My name is Nick Robinson. Practice law at Bradshaw Robinson Rainer in Pittsburgh 128 Hillsboro Street. Um if I heard uh the question correctly um this is a question about um the storm water I

guess in the in the back part of the property.

Um yeah so the um I think some conversations were had after the storm uh with the town manager and the the engineer on the project uh Mark Ashnes and a couple things to to say. First of all, obviously the storm water control um features of this project will be um are going to meet whatever the Pittsboro requirements are. But in addition to that um the question was asked whether the um developer would voluntarily agree to do more um than the what is required by the regulations. And I'm just going to read the um statement that the project engineer Mark Ashnes um gave to the town manager uh yesterday and the day before I think it was. He says after confirming with the developer client said we will size the storm water pond in excess of the town's requirements. We pledged to make it as large as practical. Actual size will be determined in the construction drawing and permitting process. So the developer is mindful of the situation. uh they know that they're not obligated to go beyond the storm water controls, but they do feel like uh it would make some sense here to do whatever is practical under the circumstances to to do their part.

Sufficient. Thank you.

Thanks.

Any other questions on that or comments?

Any comments from the staff regarding that

promise that what was the give and take on on your side? Was there

there was no give.

There was no give on your side on

just called him and asked him.

Okay. And it was

Yeah. And he responded a few hours later.

Okay. Very good. Thank you.

I mean we'll get more details during uh CD phase.

Okay. Thank you.

Will come after subdivision.

We're two steps away. Annexation.

Two steps.

Well, annexation happens first.

Guard horse. And um Mr. Tingle, I think you're probably very well suited to answer this question. Um because my general understanding after years of of talking about storm water and ways to control it um is that town governments have fewer levers uh than we used to have.

Yes.

And um the current legislative atmosphere is removing even more of those levers. And so rather than me giving an opinion editorial on it, I would like if you would be willing to summarize kind of what are our powers to constrain developers in terms of uh storm water controls.

Sort of comes from a couple of places. Um very obviously uh retention of some degree of the number of trees that are there. as was mentioned just a minute ago, u engineered storm water devices help significantly. And then uh some of the particular features that will be included in the actual development itself can help as well. Um leaving some areas natural is is large. I do feel that our ability to crush somebody down or or stop them from developing is is limited and has as you said been heading even further into the not allowable.

Yeah. Certainly um in this particular developments case um our next steps after this annexation are certainly a subdivision approval for it and um between the subdivision approval preliminary plat and the final plat. We will obviously work very hard to get to a place where the devices are sized

appropriately and that storm water issues and and the fire safety issue that was brought up previously are also addressed. [Music]

That helps. Um it does help and uh I know that that there's a a lot of complexity to storm water control engineering. Um but can you help uh myself and a lay audience understand what what is being referred to when people say controlling a storm to the 10year standard or to the 15ear standard or to the hundredyear storm standard. Certainly if you're engineering for the traditional I think it works more in the 2 to 4 in rain event. In this particular case a recommendation is going to be the 25ear storm which is more like a 6 in rain event. This uh most recent set of rain uh and precipitation is more like having 6 months of rain in a weekend. So, it it's extremely severe and hopefully not commonplace all the time, but certainly a neighborhood that is built to uh withstand a 25-year storm is significantly more likely to create less of a runoff problem than one that's more I just feel like Kent is going to jump right in.

Yeah.

Yeah. So, just so I mean what you've said is right on target. I think and one of the things talking about this the 10year storm 25-y year storm what that really means is it's a storm with a 25% chance of recurring within any one year period and that's the same for if it's a one year it's 1% 2ear 2% and and so forth. So that's that's really the description behind that nomenclature. um

you know it's long ingrained in the civil engineering practice. It's not the greatest descriptor because we see how those thresholds are um regularly you know surpassed and so it's um you know it's a challenge with the with the um terminology but that's that's really what it is intended to describe.

Okay. And I I think the other thing as Randy was talking about, we have been discussing for uh going back to our uh when we were drafting uh legislative priorities for the board this spring. Uh we have been considering how to get because you talked about the legislative uh environment. Uh so we recognize that this has to be a partnership with the development community. So we've been considering how to get uh agreement on um increased storm water controls earlier in the process. Uh you know we have some thoughts about that that we're not uh completely ready to reveal at this time but um it's nothing u earthshattering. it's, you know, um, it's being done in in communities in North Carolina. So, uh, we're we're looking to borrow some of those best practices is the best way to describe it. Now that we're talking about storm water, um just heading down Hillsboro Street from Lowe's, uh I'm heading towards the circle and I'm counting the number of driveways that cross that stream on the on the right hand on the west side of Hillsboro Street. There's nine driveways. And if I was an owner of one of those driveways, I would be praying to the good Lord that I don't have another $5,000 bill handed

to me because of the way the the water's running down. And if you think about it, Pittsboro, big big big picture, Pittsboro is pretty much on the bottom of the hill, right? from power plays from from uh Lowe's from Belmont Point, Belmont Station across uh down to Thompson Street, everything funnels into Robinson Creek and the town is in the way of that. Everything. And so, uh we as a community, uh are looking at culverts that vary in size all over the town from 24 in to 6 54 in. 60 in. There are some on Thompson Street that are completely blocked right now because of the storm and I'm sure they'll they'll be cleaned out. U there's a there's a covert just east of the entrance to Chattam Forest that's very compromised. And if you look real closely, you'll see the reeds bending over. They were washed away and they're headed downhill from from that that entrance to Chattam Park. So all of concentrate flood right beyond that. It's very obvious to look at it like that. And if you look at the culvert itself, it's relatively small. Um I'm guessing um I'm guessing 36 in. Uh we might probably have to double that to go under Thompson Street. And I'm not a hydra uh an engineer, but Thompson Street needs to be looked at and cleaned out immediately. There's a lot of storm water debris right in the middle of that. So, that's one one issue.

Commissioner Foley, I'd like to suggest we're in an annexation public hearing.

Yes, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. It's later or maybe

I'll put in an email.

Anyway, so my apologies, but I I do want to say that this is a an extreme uh hazard that we need to be addressing.

And again, I apologize. Thank you. Okay. Any other comments on the annexation?

Oh, yeah. Annexation. Yeah. Um I I do want to uh thank staff for for the response to my questions and I also want to express gratitude to the applicant their representations tonight, Nick Robinson. um because of their willingness with this project before the storm water issue came up, their willingness to help with the sidewalks, our greenway uh in in lie of affordable housing contributions and um I I want to make the connection that because a nearby naturally occurring affordable housing is going to benefit from these really vital transportation improvements, uh bicycle and pedestrian transportation improvements. Um and since then um thanks to manager Franklin we've the whole board has read of the will applicants willingness to increase the size of the storm water control measures on site at the the downhill end of their development as large as practical is the quote and uh I'm hopeful that they can manage uh a very significant uh increased investment there. um to have a a zero hydraological impact on the downstream u from their project. That's my hope. And um because of uh the very positive uh communication, very positive collaborative uh approach, I support with enthusiasm this project uh because of these clear expressions and that they are very clearly hearing community concerns and are willing to act. Uh the responsiveness is refreshing. So I look forward to

deciding on the annexation petition.

Uh we had no one signed up for public comment for this or to speak at this public hearing. So I'll take a motion to close the public hearing.

So moved.

Thank you, Commissioner Bonnets. Second.

Second, Commissioner Vos. All those in favor say I.

I. Any additional comments or questions from the board?

Yeah, one one well said, Commissioner Bonds. Thank you.

Okay, I'll take a motion to approve the annexation request for voluntary contiguous annexation petition A2051 PB25242. Been

moved. Thank you. Commissioner Bonnets. Second. Second. Commissioner Vos. All those in favor say I.

I.

Thank you.

Up next we have a public hearing for a conditional reszoning PB251 175 the plant cumc. I'll take a motion to open the public hearing. Move.

Mr. Ferrell. Thank you. Second. Second. Mr. Vos. All those in favor say I. I. I. All right. Good evening. Okay, there we go. All right. Uh, wanted to point out to y'all, this is an aerial view stolen from the internet of the plant, but I thought it was a nice illustration of it. Ly est on behalf of Alador Investments LLC petitioned to have 16.83 acres of land on this site. Not all of it. Uh, there's some partial numbers that are listed in the report here. It's currently zone M2, which is heavy industrial. It's supposed to be reclassified or at least requesting it as a CMU CCZ, which is a community mixeduse conditional reszoning. It's located along Lorax Lane. It's been in use since

at least 2005 as a manufacturing site and as an entertainment destination. Primary rationale for this conditional resoning is to bring most of the existing uses into conforming status and adaptive reuse of one of the primary structures to create an indoor event space is also a key motivation. We go to our next slide here. There we go. Okay. So the red dot on your left side of the screen uh actually shows you that this is in a um in a um development center in our land use plan. It's also as I said slated for this particular type of growth. Way it's condition where it's the way it's currently zoned is actually on your right hand side and that is just everything that's sort of mint green. It's one big uh M2 district. If you go to the next slide, there you go. And so the idea is to leave the me company out which is up top in the red circle. The building that sort of caused this project to come forward is the thing in the purple circle near the bottom. Um there is not a plan currently to go in and just massively reszone. It's just that in the particular list of uses, I believe we go to the next slide. Or do we? There you go. See this list of everything that's circled in red is something that's going on on the site right now more or less that is not complying with the current zoning. So, every one of these uses is non-conforming. And when you go to get per permits from the county or you go to get a construction loan to do something, you're doing so with a um particular piece of property that is not zoned um to fit those needs. M2 heaviest industrial brings to mind for me a cement pl or a place to make wood products. It doesn't really feel very

much like a place to go have a beer. So u anyway or enjoy one of the food trucks. So um the request there are some members of the family here all come up uh or not and u basically staff reviewed this we've been working on this since December or earlier and there is a list of uses that's included in the conditions that you're going to find in the packet listed as exhibit B and I believe I received anybody want to go through this now I can okay so um one of the issues that was uh identified by mayor was that on this list of uses over here on I guess if you're looking at it's on the left hand side of the screen. It certainly is when I'm looking at it. Um there are a bunch of uses that aren't actually uh defined at all. And there is a suggestion that for uses like the workshop or indoor outdoor venue game room and I think the game room was one of the most important definitions that was agreed upon today. I'll go through that in a second. Overnight lodging and club and meeting spaces. Um, those things were a little vague and weren't defined very well. The game room, which is actually shows up on the previous slide as something that's sort of ancillary to something else, um, didn't make it clear, but in this definition that was recommended today. Does everyone have a copy of this? That is my next question. That's Oh, that's good news. Okay. But if you actually look down at the game room description, it's an indoor space for playing board games, tabletop role playing games, arcade games, and pinball machines or similar. It excludes gambling, games of skill. That would certainly be be internet sweep stakes, any devices that are regulated by the NC lottery commission. I thought that was a good clarification. So um I would certainly request that this set of definitions be added to the conditions. That is my speech.

Thank you. Would the applicant like to speak?

This is Dan.

Thank you. Mayor any questions?

We just want to play some cards

and and I know that space. Um so uh and and I think overall, you know, it's I think we're all understanding what we're trying to do here is just, you know, continue what's happening there. Um but also since this is a permanent zoning change that it sort of like protects what could happen in the future as well. Um so correct. Appreciate you uh working with with me on those definitions um to to make sure that's clear. So any questions or comments from the board? We look forward to being combined.

Yeah.

Thank you for all the effort.

Uh there's no one signed up to speak for this public hearing. So I'll take a motion to close the public hearing.

So moved.

Commissioner Vos.

Second. Commissioner Ferrell. Uh all those in favor say I.

I.

Okay. Yes. Say when someone makes the motion to approve, if that is the will of the board, please say amended to include the handout.

Yes,

that's my request.

Okay. Thank you. Approve. And any other discussion, question?

Okay. Uh, I'll take a motion to approve PB25175 as with the amended definitions uh for workshop, indoor, outdoor venue, game room, office space, overnight lodging, and club meeting spaces as well as the attached draft consistency statement as presented.

Moved.

Thank you, Commissioner Bonnets.

Second.

Second, Commissioner Bose. Any other

discussion? All those in favor say I.

I. [Music] Thank you very much. Really appreciate it.

All right. Uh action item.

One thing I got something on my mind um before we go and we've been discussing storm water quite a bit and I would like to make sure that staff is uh in line with the issues that's going on at the lake. I've been living here 68 years and it's been a problem for 68 years. We used to put a boats in that lake and fish and catch fish. It was numerous fish in that lake. When NC State did their survey or their silt, they ruined that lake. Just like Mr. Son said, they ruined that lake. Uh it hadn't been the same since. So, I really think we need to put some uh emphasis on either fixing the dam, do some type of uh spillway or whatever we do. That 8 foot of water backing up in there is ridiculous. That's just way over, you know, it's dangerous. [Music] Whatever we need to do, I'd like for us to, you know, get a grant, get some kind of monies and see if we can't move forward on some kind of federal grant.

Yeah. Later on the agenda, you have a budget amendment for consideration and so we we can talk about that when we get to that.

Okay,

that's okay.

Yeah. All right.

Thank you.

Okay. First action item is a request to close Subtles Road, a portion of Subtles Road. Mr. Mayor, members of the board, um you have in your agenda package a copy of a petition from Chattam Park Investors that uh asked the town to close a 1.328 acre portion of Settles Road uh which is connected to the Chattam Parkway and the

bypass, the 64 highway bypass. Um, this section of the road was dedicated by the town in 2020 to the Department of Transportation. Earlier this month, the DOT has um decided to abandon its maintenance responsibility for this portion of the road. uh this process through the GS 168 299 would allow the um that section of the roadway to be completely closed and uh not used as a public street on there's a resolution that's also enclosed in your agenda package which is a resolution yeah close the road if you all adopt that tonight then the matter will be set for public hearing in August and you will make a final decision at that Um, in the meantime, the the section of the roadway would be posted with a notice. The joint property owners would be um notified, of course, the joint property owners of Chattam Park. Um, and the resolution of intent, if you all adopt that tonight, would be published in the paper for four consecutive weeks before the public hearing. So um there will be ample opportunity for anybody who has any interest in the roadway or access to the roadway to be here uh next month and share their views with you. Um so it's a request of Chattam Park to u adopt the resolution of intent tonight and go forward. Uh Stephen Perry's uh representing Chad Park that's here in the audience if we have any questions.

Thank you. Any questions? Yeah. Uh, in general, I'm I'm really curious why why why any of it? Why why are we uh why was the road moved uh and now being abandoned? You just don't understand.

It has been abandoned. So, that that's a

fact. It's not a why, it's a fact. Because there's an alternative uh route being proposed off of Chadam Parkway at a different location that Chhattam Park is contributing. It's my understanding that if you again in August if you adopt the resolution that permanently closes the road um Jenna Park will own the rightway that is involved in this uh matter and then would be able to develop that property and I understand further that there is a pedestrian uh walkway that is planned to go in the vicinity of this rightway. It will accomplish a consolidation of the two parcels on either side of the settles road and allow it to be developed as one parcel. So, um, Commissioner Bon, I may be able to add some something additional. I think this initiated with NC DO's evaluation of design concepts for the interchange of Chattam Parkway US64 bypass. Uh as we know there currently on the north side of that interchange is the uh westbound exit ramp and it's also or the Yeah. And it's also the westbound entry ramp or or they're in a so it's not in a true what would be called diamond style interchange. So they from my understanding is they studied implementation of a true uh diamond interchange um and instead selected the relocation of subtles road and retaining the current geometry of the interchange uh which as uh the attorney mentioned is a win for pedestrians because of the removal of the uh full intersection hazard. the

completion of the 10-foot uh path across what was a street intersection and then the subtle road realignment will align with the I think it's called village parkway that is part of the um north village of Chattam Park. Okay. So, we're closing in advance of North Village Parkway connecting down to Suttles Road. Correct. And um yeah, I appreciate you answering the questions. it. I remember when Subtles Road connected to where Chattam Parkway meets uh the overpass and um thought it was interesting that that Subtles Road uh curve was built to meet the Chattam Parkway, 300 ft north of the overpass and now abandoning it and um removing it. So, thanks for answering my questions. Any other questions?

Take a motion to adopt the resolution of intent to close.

Move.

Commissioner Foley.

Second.

Commissioner votes. All those in favor say I.

I. I I

thank you. Up next is a preliminary plat request PB24502 Chattam Park section 6.2 phase 2. Uh Miss Thompson Park Investors LLC is proposing to subdivide 57 single family residential lots. It includes 29 single family

detached, also called cottages, and 28 town homes. This subdivision is in section 6.2 phase two of Chhattam Park. It's located east of Chattam Parkway and north of Highway 64 bypass. We'll just go through the staff analysis. There are no streams, wetlands, or flood plan in this section. Um, for tree coverage area, it's required to have 6.35 acres and the applicant is providing 12.02 acres. For parkland, 8.8 acres are required. 3.9 acres will be provided on site and the remainder will be provided offsite in the north um village of Chatt. Open space 4.57 acres are required. 15.62 62 acres will be provided and parking 121 parking spaces are required and 31 spaces are being provided. Um the plan is consistent with the conference transportation plan, the bike and ped plan and the parks recreation master plan and it's been reviewed in accordance with the town's applicable standards including public utilities, public safety engineering planning. So therefore, staff recommends a motion to approve the plary plat for section 6.2 phase 2.

Thank you. Any questions for Teresa?

One question. The parkland, do we have a uh vision of where that five acres is going to be used at? Um, based on ongoing discussions, it's looking like it would be in the park in section 6.3. So, the applicant has been working with the parks and recreation director Katie Keller on that discussion. So, typically we would have all this in for plots. Um,

but given the situation that they're still working on details, um, but we do know it will be in the north village. Okay.

It will be added to some acreage we already have. Well, they're required to provide a certain percentage of public for recreation. So, part of that requirement for this section is going to be used in the park that's going to be in section 6.3,

3.9 acres,

correct?

Okay. I think it's about a 20 acre park that

this this land is going to that

that's the that's what the discussion is right now. Yes sir.

Okay. Thank you.

For the final time it's approved it will be um we

Okay. Thank you. Thanks Teresa. Any other questions or comments? All right.

Make a motion to approve the major subdivision plant.

Okay.

Second.

Commissioner votes. All those in favor say I.

I.

Thank you. Up next is a preliminary plat request PB25138 WML tract roadway extensions.

So this is for two new rideways. There's a 70 foot wide rightway called Old Proidence Road and a variable width public street rightway called Oakland Avenue. This was included in the conditional reasoning for the rumble track. So, um what they proposed is consistent with what you approved already. Um there are two streams on the property, one intermittent and one per perennial. And there's also a stream crossing. There is also 100red-year flood plane located in the southwest portion of this

project area. Um, parkland open space open space is not applicable yet since there's no homes being built at this time or any non-residential building. Um the proposed pedestrian um circulation is a 10 foot multi-use path on one side and 5 foot sidewalk on the other for Old Providence Road and an 8ft multi-use path and 5ft sidewalk on Oaklan Avenue. Regarding the comprehensive plans, um it is consistent with the CTP. It's not consistent with the bike and ped parks and recreation master plan and the north village area plan. Um though it will be when additional subdivisions are created for actual development of buildings. So, for example, um the bike and ped plan calls for a uh shared use path along parkway that will be built as it's developed. And um the parks and recreation master plan calls for two greenway trails, one along Chattam Parkway and one along the southern portion of this section. There's a stream. Um so that's shown on the maps and it's also shown on the north village my area plan map as well. So staff will ensure that will be complete uh when it's applicable and engineering and planning mostly looked at this plot uh for accordance with all the applicable standards. Therefore staff recommends approval.

Thank you. Any questions for Teresa? Yeah. Um this is uh on the other side of Prince

Creek from uh Eubanks Road and yet uh supporting drawings for this application included uh the overview of greenways in this whole vicinity of the north village in and um I didn't quite follow uh the narrative um about you know it's it's a phrase that's repeated frequently um when development occurs adjacent to Chattam Parkway and are submitted the greenway installation on Chattam Parkway will be handled with those adjacent projects. Um can you help me understand the language there? Um, so whenever you build like let's say a non-residential building, it's a requirement that they install sidewalk on the adjacent roads. So since Chattam Parkway wasn't built with a multi-use path, uh, it needs to be done as development occurs along the road. Um

just like any existing road in in town, we would require as it's developed adjacent to that road, they have to install whatever uh our comprehensive plans require. So it could be a 5ft sidewalk attention.

And so will that also be the case with the greenway? I think it's an eight-footer marked to go across Eubanks Road. Eubanks Road was not mentioned in here, but Shadow Parkway and Oaklan Drive were

Yes. Only the only the roads that are specifically adjacent.

All right. Thank you. Um that's helpful clarification, Miss Thompson. Um

yeah. Then the other thing that I I uh that got my attention about this is the flood plane and um the um comments from neighbor Amanda Robertson earlier this evening um help us cue this up. Um, this go go goes back to um concerns that are years old and were expressed a number of times about the storm water management and design system for Chadam Park being essentially a black box and uh not open for public review. and um the fact that storm water is a growing concern everywhere, but especially here in Chattam County, here in Pittsburgh specifically because of our steep slopes and highly erodable land. Um uh and and of course because of recent events. Um, so I think it's especially worrisome because um, my understanding is that the Chattam Park investors, their contractors or subcontractors have had more than 14 violations of county and state rules and laws protecting against soil erosion, siltation, and storm water violations. And I just cannot pass up the opportunity to say that I think we were led to expect better. And um curious to hear what others on the board think, but that's all I'm going to say about this in this moment.

Thank you.

Yes, sir. Uh Channon Park, they have to be the same rules as everyone else in the town whether you're in Chenn Park or not. Uh the town has two wersheds.

Waterershed 4 protected areas the majority of the town and then Jordan Lake waterhed. So there's minimum requirements that all development has to meet whether you know it's residential or non-residential. Um, Chattam Park in addition has a element for storm water that the town engineers review and it's all public record. So, anybody can look at them, but at a base level it's what's required, you know, for any any development in town. They have to meet that.

I can explain it in more detail if you'd like, but

I live through it. uh the the construction development of that element uh as did a couple of other commissioners. And um the uh the fact that the the system was designed or uh acrewing points for certain um utilizing certain uh approaches or uh management practices or strategies. um and then uh those points are acred um and values assigned. That's the part that's the black box. That's the part that's not been uh illuminated. It's not been available for public review. Um, and um, I mean, I'm just looking at the results. Um, and if if there's been 14 or more violations, it's concerning

and I'm speaking to what the standards are, not the violations for sure.

So, Mrs. Thompson. So, from what Commissioner Baronets was indicating, there were 14 or more violations. Do you have any knowledge about those particular violations or if those things were resolved?

Um, all the ones that I'm aware of have been resolved. Um, it's we contract with the county.

So, soil erosion control. Um, and from what we understand, you know, they're as soon as they are aware of an issue, they handle it very quickly.

And then the county would certainly advise you all that those things were resolved. Is that

I mean, yes, ma'am.

Especially the town engineering staff. and the erosion the same type situation erosion control because I was looking in here at this proposed standard and it indicates of course erosion control will be obtained at the CD phase. So basically that also is looked at by the county. Is that correct? And then

report it.

Um

they consult with the town before they approve it to make sure that they've received all the approvals required by the town first before they can approve their drainage. Um

on that on that thought, is the county requested to come here or how how are how do they do they have a scheduled monitor system that they use to u observe erosion issues? Is there like a set schedule

outside of the inspections? I'm not aware of that. the inspections just impromptu inspections or how's that how does that work?

Um there's different levels of inspections that Yeah, I think

Yeah. So, uh,

We know when the count started, but I imagine it was when ground started breaking for the overall CH Park project.

10 years ago,

five five or seven years ago, something like that.

So, do you do you do you see a pattern of misuse or Mr. Jackson, I think it's better question to you. I certainly don't see a pattern of of you know willful okay you know either avoidance or or anything of that nature.

Sh park respond to your requests if there is a violation promptly?

Yes. Yeah. I mean I frequently when on occasion although the program as we've discussed is is administered by the county on occasion we will intervene just either to add emphasis or to get information those times when I have done that um their staff has been diligent about getting in in touch with us and resolving the concern. You know, sometimes they're more difficult, sometimes it takes um you know, repeated attempts or or just more effort, but uh they have been responsive.

Thank you.

I do have one more question. say if a resident contacts you the count the town and reports they think that there is a violation. So will the county go out there and review that at your request based on their

Yes. What we do

citizen?

Yes. In that scenario we do two things. We immediately send that also to the county staff and our inspector will perform a site visit

as soon as possible just to assess you know the the magnitude um you know any other impacts that may be happening that weren't reported uh just for to complete the information loop. But as far as the enforcement and followup, we hand that to the county and you know we we play a support role uh where it's needed. So

Okay. Thank you. I was asking so many questions because of the concern with all of this flooding that has occurred so that the citizens will know that there is a process for that and that the county and the city the town is compliant with what could be done to try to to alleviate that situation.

Certainly I mean these are all um good and legitimate questions. So, uh, we're happy to answer them and provide additional information as needed.

Thank you.

Thank you. Any other questions?

Make one final observation that the the concern is not how uh the county responds to uh observations of violations. The the concern is not how the SHAM park investors, their subcontractors or assignees respond to an actual violation. And the concern is the violations are happening because once the mud is down the stream, once the silt is in the watershed, uh the damage is done to the ecosystems and to whomever is consuming the water downstream having to pay extra to filter that water to a drinking water standard.

So the violations just shouldn't be happening. So thank you. Thanks for hearing me. Okay. I will take a motion to approve the major subdivision preliminary plat for the WLET tract roadway extensions by adopting the resolution approving an application for a preliminary plat major subdivision.

So moved.

Commissioner votes. Thank you.

Second.

Second. Commissioner Ferrell. All those in favor say I. I. Any

opposed? Thank you. Uh up next we have a property purchase request for 205 J8 Barrel Street. Manager Franklin sir you have in front of you um you get sorry. So in front of you have a request from staff to approve the acquisition of property at 205J Feral Street for $700,000. Uh it was appraised for 1.45 million. Has a tax value of $857 uh,000. Uh so this is a pretty good deal. You'll notice that there is uh the owner is seeking to convey 48% undivided interest for the purchase price and donate 51% uh interest balance and that's so they can get that as a you know tax write off donation. Um that's pretty much it. Happy to answer any questions. Any questions for Mr. Franklin?

Will we get a copy of the HUD when it comes out? HUD statement?

Yes, sir.

Transaction.

I want to commend the the staff for uh targeting this property. It's such a great location and uh I I I commend the staff for picking up on this and

negotiating a great price for this property. Thank you.

The mayor identified the property and the property owner was very gracious in allowing me to negotiate with him.

Any other questions? Okay. Take a motion to purchase property at 205 JA Ferrell Street and to authorize the town manager to sign the contract for purchase of said property.

So moved.

Mayor Pro Tim Baldwin.

Second. Commissioner Bonnets. All those in favor say I.

I. Thank you. Up next we have a budget amendment for that property. Any questions? All right.

We were talking bud about a budget and you referred you implied to Commissioner Frell that you were going to be addressing. Is that the budget?

It's the which

one amendment for property sale 21.1 acres. This budget amendment we just a calculation it came over what we had originally budgeted so that's what this is for make a motion to approve the budget ordinance amending the operating budget at 2526 second

okay motion by commissioner Frell second by commissioner Foley all those in favor say I

I

thank you uh and up next is a property lease at that same property. So

yes sir, uh it is currently being leased um by Little Tikes Learning Academy. So just need per permission and approval from this board to authorize myself to go and negotiate a lease with that

business owner with town Pittsburgh.

Any questions? Is it the lease that we're speaking of it is it of market value

current lease

the lease that we would be providing?

We heard this memo or this motion that suggested we will not be more stringent than what they current. We also see a value in uh the business itself being that it's probably a a value uh approach to childcare. So obviously we don't want to do anything uh to that type of business that we need to use the property for our intended use. Any other questions? Take a motion to authorize the town manager to negotiate and execute a lease with Little Tikes Learning Academy for 205 JA Frell Street.

So moved.

Thank you, Commissioner Rose.

Second.

Second, Commissioner Ferrell. All those in favor say I.

I.

Thank you. All right. Up next, we have a request for the Monure Pittsburgh Road Parkland offer.

Sir, uh at your June meeting, uh you adopted a resolution authorizing the sale of that 21.1 acres of the 54 that we have for a park site along Moniker Pittsburgh Road and we went through the statutory requirements for an upset bid procedure. We received an offer of 1.2 million from Chadam Park. Um, and this is just the final step in that. So, you're just authorizing the town manager to execute the instruments necessary to convey the property.

Okay. I could answer any questions.

Just to clarify, no upset bids. The original bid was that

Sorry, we received no upset loss.

We were question for Jonathan

just for public consumption. the we had

the value opinion done and it was anywhere from $800 to $900,000. So, I think town got a good deal on this one, too. Okay. Um, I'll take a motion to accept the offer and authorize the town manager to execute the instruments necessary to convey approximately 21.1 acres of tract 5 as shown on a plat recorded in plat slide 2022 pages 364 and 365. Chattam County Registry to CPF LLC.

So commissioner post second

second. Commissioner Ferrell. Any other discussion? All those in favor say I.

I.

Thank you.

All right. Um Okay. Uh up next is a budget amendment for that item, the 21.1 acre sale.

So, we need to accept that revenue and then allocate that revenue for expenditure. So, I think this is uh the right time to talk about Town Lake and possibly what could be done. Um, if you look at the second page, you've got there where we've got the $400,000 appropriated. That is for your next item. Um, that's up on the agenda. And then 125 for Rock Ridge bathrooms. We had those priced out to look for uh pre-cast design bathrooms that don't have water, sewer, or electricity. Uh, because that that property is a bit off the grid and we don't have utilities up there. So, this is a lowcost option for that. 50,000 for Kowanas Park. Um mentioned that we wanted to do some upgrades there. Trying to achieve those. 350 for Town Lake Park. That was a bit lower, but after the storm, we added uh I want to say 150,000 to that number just in case uh this board had some concerns. 100,000 for a building upfit for the the next item that you'll consider. 75 for park uh improvements.

That's kind of a contingency bucket that we want to put some money in. And then 100,000 for Night Farm Park. That's to put up some sha shave structures and do some additional upgrades that Katie would like to do there. Um, if you have any questions about those items specifically, Katie can answer those. If you want to talk about, we can do that after your other questions are handled. I think we've already talked about the the the shade structures at Night Farm and um they're much needed obviously, but so is Town Lake Park. So I know there's a lot of damage to Town Lake Park right now. Correct. Do we have any estimates about how to how much that would cost?

No. So we're still very much at the beginning. that was we were hopeful that we could last a little bit longer safely with the bridge. So, um we've pivoted. What I'd also like to say is this has been our rate on our radar. Um especially with some of the flooding that we've heard in the past couple months. If y'all remember last year that we did some uh addressing of the dam, right? And it turns out that's a little bit more complicated than that. And it has been the last couple months that we have heard some feedback that this has been happening. So in addition to this, I'd also like to say that we're looking at the land and water conservation grant that's upcoming in this fall to also further potentially provide some funds for Town Lake specifically in that back area. So and being able to address the dam and how we can assess the lake in itself too. Can I hear from the staff about why the properties around 902 flooded? What what exactly happened? What are where are we failing?

I mean, I'm not a an engineer or a scientist for that matter. But we got 10 11 inches of rain in 4 hours, 5 hours. I I think that's why

that's a huge amount of rain. um saw what happened to me and we got just as much rain as they did authorities to them. So I think it's just a massive rain event and the the lake was just overwhelmed now. I think we could probably find some solutions to handle that in the future because that's probably likely to occur again soon around.

Do you think that the the the lake is filled up and then back flooded?

Sir.

Okay. All right.

It's it's also probably because you have the lake on what the east side of 902. But their properties and where the flooding happened was on the west side.

So it backed up to that channel that feeds into the town lake and then that's kind of where it got overwhelmed and flooded the back of their propert.

Okay.

Well, you can mitigate that. And I'm I'm assuming that uh there's a way to mitigate that problem by a spillway or something over the that would can can regulate the amount of water that's backed up behind it. I'm assuming I'm not a hydro engineer, but that can be fixed, I'm assuming. Right. I think we'd have to hire some folks with more education than me, but you know, the bridge on Sanford Road, water was going over that bridge. So, if you think about how much water that is to do that, and then it keeps backing up um into some of these nar channels where these houses are sitting. It's It's just going to happen with that much rain.

Yeah. So, Sanford Road Bridge was backed up. Um Pittsburgh Elementary School road was covered

completely underwater.

Completely underwater. Uh and

the laundry mat was flooded.

The water street

the water was just so high throughout that whole part of town that I think it

had nowhere to go except farther upstream.

I think that dam was originally for water supply, not flood control.

That's correct. So, I mean, and I think there's still things in and all those that we can look at, but I think originally it was it was never been intended as a flood control device. It's a it was water, drinking water originally.

I think even if you dredge the lake, make it deeper, it's still going to hold the same amount of water that the dam will allow it to hold. So, even if you have another 10, 11, 12 inch water event,

the same thing is likely to happen. So that that tells me I'm not an engineer either, but that tells me that we need to retain the water upstream, much farther upstream

possibly. Yeah.

And slowly release it or just larger flood control solutions in general,

right?

Because I mean, like I said, I mean, I think it I think the water was multiple feet over the dam in this case. So

when I was down there, it looked like it was almost to the steps of the wellhouse.

And that's sealable feet above above the top of the dam.

I was I was actually expected to to look over and see that the wellhouse was gone when I first went down there. The water was so high.

How did you approach it from the Diane Street side?

Yes, sir. But I mean I think generally for this item this is appropriating some money towards solutions. We don't know what those I mean so originally it was to improve the trails around the lake right and then we added some more after the storm for what might be needed or a study or something like that. But I think it's largely unknown this early in the in the analysis.

Yes. We've had to pivot a little bit. to seek other opportunities

from now to replace the bridge.

That grant meeting is later this month. I think we just set a date. I don't remember what the date was, but we just set it for this month. And

I'm assuming that you will the the bridge if it's rebuilt. It will be rebuilt in a manner that will not be compromised as easily.

That's the goal.

Okay. Robbie cover there.

We're looking into it.

Robbie ODM helped us get a quote roughly per linear feet. So we we could rebuild that back with wood for about $100,000 based on what the numbers they're seeing. A lot less than what I was thinking. But if we go steel structure, probably talking a million. Well, and I think too like it the bridge didn't really go much of anywhere. Not that Dian Street is not much of anywhere, but I think that's an integral part of the loop, finishing the loop around the lake as well. So, I mean, I think we in that context when we can fund the rest of that work, we can fund the replacement. I think we're hearing what you were asking us to do. If not, staff will talk tomorrow. We'll figure out some type of game plan.

You know, in a in a perfect world, I'd rather see that lake be storm mitigation, storm water pond as opposed to a lake. But I understand its purpose and its origin. And and these are general allocations that will be sort of tightened up as as we go on. We're just essentially taking this money proceeds sale proceeds and generally allocating to improve existing parts. Yes, sir.

Any concerns about the allocations overall? Make a motion to approve the budget ordinance amending the fiscal year 2526 operating budget.

So,

thank you, Commissioner Vos.

Second.

Second. Mayor

Pro Tim Baldwin. Uh, any other discussion? All those in favor say I. I. I.

Thank you. Uh, let's see. Property purchase request 274 Pittsboro Elementary School Road. Mr. Franklin see the theme of the city.

So, we're looking at 274 Pittsburgh Elementary School Road. Uh, former home or still home of the uh, Rafy building. Did I say that right? wrapping

nonprofit. Yeah.

So, they listed the property for sale. Uh we looked at it and staff um immediately really liked what they saw, like the opportunities that that building and that property property offered the town in terms of uh community center space in the future, office space for parks and wreck, community engagement space. We seem to be doing a lot of that uh these days and doing a good job of it. So, we thought this might also be a great spot to engage the community with community house works fine, but the the sound just is not ideal that it's a rock building. Uh so this gives us another opportunity for that, but but mainly just expanding uh an existing park essentially in downtown Pittsburgh. Uh we've been doing a lot of upgrades to Mcclanahan and I think this uh will be another enhancement to that park uh and then solve a lot of operational uh problems that we currently have into the future. And you know, we are kind of in the pre-engineering of a of a town hall project. This actually would save us about a million dollars uh home space

needed for town hall because we we pull park and wrecks out of that. They would go in this building. And so essentially, you're getting three acres to uh improved McClennham Park for $450,000. That's kind of the way I'm looking at it.

Any questions or comments?

I think it makes a lot of sense. And uh I'll share kind of what I shared in in close session uh that um I I was very fortunate to work in this building for 7 years and um feel like I know this structure pretty well. I think it was built very well. Even while I was working there, I felt that it was built to kind of municipal standards. You know, it's they didn't they didn't cheapep out on doors and fixtures. It's a It's a well-built structure. It happens to be um leadcertified. Um much of that was because they uh deconstructed and reused materials from the farmhouse that sat on the site uh out of respect for for that structure and its history. And um the inside is just just a beautiful and pleasant space to work. Uh it's got natural daylighting and lots of natural wood finishes. Um again, including the historic uh reused wood from from the farmhouse. Um it's it's just a really special place and I think we're very fortunate that uh that we were able to get on it and uh Mr. Franklin, it's excellent that you were able to negotiate with the u property owners and that they were willing to uh see the the public good of transferring this to public ownership. So, I'm I strongly support the initiative and I'm very very pleased

that uh that's happening.

Wanted to thank town staff as well for the quick work on this one. the other one played out a lot long over a lot more time and um this was a a quick reaction we were able to do to something that came on the market and I think that highlights the the financial strength of the town too that we have some flexibility. Um and I'm just really happy overall of the investment in downtown that these two purchases represent as well and that expansion of of the downtown area. So

yeah, it has the Heather Carrie and Katie s of approval. I picked the Yeah. So, I didn't really have a choice matter.

I I do want to shout out to Eric Andrews, too, a fellow broker in Pittsboro who uh provided excellent guidance and common sense to the board when we made these decisions in close session. So, thank you to Erica Andrews as well

and Laura who has been on her game helping us get this paperwork straight.

And Laura Take a motion to authorize the town manager to execute a purchase and sale agreement consistent with the approved letter of intent. So moved.

Thank you, Commissioner Vos. Second.

Second.

Uh, Mayor Proen Baldwin. Uh, any other discussion? All those in favor say I.

I.

Thank you. We have a budget uh amendment for this property acquisition. I'll take a motion to approve the budget ordinance amending the fiscal year 2526 operating budget. Some of Commissioner Vos Commissioner Ferrell. Any discussion?

All those in favor say I.

I. And then we have a

budget ordinance for a property assessment for this property as well. Um, get how much?

10,000.

Yeah. Survey inspections. Just the general.

Okay.

We don't plan to spend that much. We wanted to cover ourselves just in case.

We'll take a motion to approve the budget ordinance amending the fiscal year 2526 operating budget.

So move.

Commissioner Vos.

Second.

Second. Make sure your balance. All those in favor say I.

I.

Thank you. Uh up next we have the moved item um from on the installment loans.

Yes. Thank you. So um yeah, you know, once again, I want to apologize that I missed our budget session uh workshop. Um I wasn't able to reiterate this point. I have corresponded with the manager about this and and he noted receipt of the email and and we talked about the concerns and I think at some other point I also shared those publicly here in this board setting. Um my concern is that uh the four pickup trucks for parks and wreck are is slated to be hybrids. And um according to the public purchasing uh pricing that I had access easy access to, which is the North Carolina Sheriff's Association, there's approximately $4,000 premium there for the hybrids over the cost of the EVs. Again, the EVs are cheaper than the hybrids per North Carolina Sheriff's Association contract pricing. And I haven't compared the sheriff's association pricing to the state contract pricing, but um

I just am really not comfortable with paying more for a technology which my opinion is suboptimal and in many different ways um when we could be um spending less to get more um better resiliency uh better power and um I think that we can um we can charge these vehicles using a 120 volt extension cord. Uh we don't have to invest in fancy charging infrastructure. Um, these trucks are probably not going more than 50 miles a day, which means they'll easily charge overnight. They're not take-home vehicles. Uh, so I'm just not comfortable with paying more for less. What I

Thank you, sir. So there was an issue of whether uh uh the the town's uh vehicles needed to be uh to have extra battery for battery life. Can you talk about that?

Sure. Yeah. Um, M. Franklin has shared with me that um, a mentor of his has prior experience with one of these trucks and, uh, urged, you know, don't buy it and if you have to buy it, buy the expanded battery. Uh, that was from the town of Davidson, if I'm understanding correctly. Is that right?

Yes, sir. That was from a lightning that they had in their police department. And my immediate thought is, well, what's the what's the range on the vehicle because that's that's what you have to focus on. Um, and it could very well be that Davidson police were putting 300 mi of range a day on those vehicles, but

I'm pretty confident that our park staff are only very rarely exceeding 50 miles um per day given that our town is only three miles from side to side. Um and uh again we can we can charge overnight easily.

What does staff think about this? Particularly park staff I guess.

So three of the F150s are parks and wreck. One is for uh public works. The the other 350 that's for public works as well. That's that's to tow some of our larger trailers and equipment. of the three some of those wheel tow trailers with lawnmowers and and equipment. Um what we've gotten from Carbarrow is that if you're towing a trailer, basically take your mileage and cut it in half. And that's in perfect weather. But then if you have weather that's a little hotter, a little colder, that's also going to degrade uh the distance that you're getting out of your battery.

When you say cut it in half, you mean from 300 to

150?

150.

Yeah. They we talk standard is 210, correct? I think that's for the like the entry level one that that's the one on state contract.

Now the state contract is a little um it's not 100% correct because it doesn't consider any of the add-ons tow package.

Yeah, exactly.

So typically if if we were to upfit an F-150 Lightning how we would our hybrids, the actual price is 56,000 which is slightly more than a hybrid. um which we're not really that's not that big of a deal cuz it's only a few thousand. Um the bigger part of that comes with the charger itself. Uh about $8,000 for that. I think we got that through Lily Pad and that's a charge point. The reason that we're trying to stick with Charge Point is because that's the existing infrastructure that we currently have. So we already have an account set up with them and we're just used to that. And you had mentioned they're it's kind of like the Cadillac

of Chargers. Um

they charge faster.

No, they're just nicer. They don't break as much.

Okay.

Um,

and are these the same charging stations that are that were or are still in front of the police station?

Yes, sir.

Yes. In the park.

Uh, Mary Hayes, I believe.

Yeah.

We already have kind of a relationship with them. I've used other chargers and they've all broke within five years. Some of them within a year.

Okay. So, this one's relatively reliable.

No, these broke, too.

Really?

Yes. They were out of commission for two years.

Yeah.

Uh not not for two years because I check them often in an evening, but yes, it was a couple months.

Have you called and had them put in a request to repair? They did not respond to that or

no it and staff were all like we don't have a issue with EVs. I mean I do for police or public safety you know related uh approaches public works because of our need for them to come in for storm um that worries me. Parks and wreck I think we have a use for it. I think we probably have a use for engineering in inspections in fleet planning. Those are vehicles that we most certainly could use electric vehicles in. Um the appro we haven't done that yet because we don't own the property that our town hall is on. So until my approach has been until we we own the property where we can install our own chargers, then that's when we can start implementing some of these things. And with parks and wreck, that wasn't going to be the case until we built them a building. But you all just approved to purchase one. So there is that option is out there. We just have to figure out what the right use is operationally.

So for the charge point, it was only offline about a month and a half. Um, I know that I went and it it's only been a

couple of times, but once Heather, we notified Heather. Heather is the one that has the relationship with the or the communication with Charpoint and they were able to fix it. So, all in all, I try and go by there just to take a look or app on my phone to make sure that everything's online and being an Eevee car driver. So, but it it wasn't it wasn't a couple years. Maybe we're talking about different instances because there was the transition from the 3G modem to the 4G modem. I was told that it was out of commission for many months. So um well the the the point that I want to emphasize here is that uh during this interim period when uh potentially staff might be having electric vehicles before we actually take possession of the Rafi building. Um, again, 120 volts using a power cord from Lowe's hardware will suffice. And I think until we start using these EV chars more extensively with more than 50 miles a day of utilization, I believe we need level two chargers. So,

I think it's really 110 charging is really limited. Um, I mean, you know, I've had a lot of electric vehicles years.

Um, and it's really not viable. Like, I've used it for a plug-in hybrid, but, um, for a full electric, it's really very slow. Um,

but the 120

Yeah. Yeah. Um, so and and I don't know about the, you know, the mileage, but I think to have to have a vehicle with a 210 mile range and then limit ourselves to 50 miles or so based on what we we charge is not a great use of resources either. Um, but I know like this is a common, you know, so first of all, I want to make sure that, you know, staff

has what they need to to operate. Um, and this is also a topic like you said that came up during the budget process and then we didn't make that decision then. Um, so you know coming up again for for a loan. But I would say if anything like it may be worthwhile to get one and trial it, you know, essentially on a trial basis for a year before we make additional decisions to get more. Um because I I think that we should try, you know, some of these real, you know, if if we're going to do it, we should see some real world use before we buy into more of them like we did with the hybrids and then, you know, found some real benefits from those

into real world experience right now out there. I mean, other towns are using it, right? Town of Garboroough, town of Weaverville has the uh special pursuit vehicle in the F-150 pickup truck. Bunkham County State Motorf Fleet Management is buying these things by the hundreds now.

They're not using a 120 plugin in your

Inas. They are.

In some cases they are.

Yep. Town of Kerry, city of Charlotte, city of Durham, city of Raleigh all have the F-150 Lightnings. Katie, what what do you think?

What I will say is as a EV driver that does this, you know, you're only supposed to charge 60 to 80% of your mileage on a daily basis. You're never supposed to charge over and over again for 100%. What I would ask to keep in mind when we're doing things, while you can charge over, you know, a drop cord, what you have to remember is that for that, the most I've ever gotten is five a charge five miles per hour. So, if your battery

is depleted and you have, say, you're plugging up at 30 miles left, right? in order to get to 170 180 it's going to be a very long time. So just keeping that into consideration of whereas you can if push comes to shove I would also if you go that route to plan accordingly in providing a little bit higher grade of a charging whether that's a charging and charging station

I think that's clearly the the end goal and what I'm suggesting is that you know we just got through a climate emergency in this town. There's businesses that were devastated. There's private property owners who uh lost significant value in their homes. Um, I personally am not comfortable voting for a higher expenditure for hybrids than for EVs that I know we can charge overnight using a power cord

because of

charging

burning fuel that you're saying. Is that we're we're trying to to do better with regard to pollution

and um of course in a future budget we need to think about more comprehensive uh charging infrastructure that would be speedy and effective. Um, and I'll ask everybody at the table who owns a cell phone, when do you charge?

At night, usually answer night.

Yeah.

You charge at night?

Mhm.

Charge at night. I plug it in, I wake up in the morning, it's got a full tank.

Well, that's different than than what Katie was saying. taking uh

five miles to an hour to get five miles of charging an electric vehicle. And I'll be honest with you, I'm not for electric vehicle unless it is a well needed vehicle. I mean, and like Jonathan said, there's places we don't need electric vehicles and staff. Uh Kyle mentioned, if we might want to try one, I I I can go along with that. But, uh

Okay. I still think the hybrids have have doing very well. I talked to Daniel one day and he said he got seven almost 800 miles with the hybrid tank of fuel and the you know electric too. So

there's going to be situations just like this storm. You know them guys out all night. Are they going to just stop and pull over and charge their electric vehicle? And how's that going to do in a foot of water? Is the battery gonna run in water? Is the battery gonna run in water? I don't know. Batteries are sealed.

Yeah.

Is there a way we can move the charging stations in front of the police station to Diane Street or wherever you you park your vehicles? I'm not so much worried about the charge charging station because I'm not because

so the argument to me is uh 120 volt it takes forever to charge is that

well Mr. Fondance's argument is that these are cheaper, but if you that's comparing apples to oranges because that's the base model that doesn't have everything we need like a towing package. Now, if you if you bring the Lightning up to the level that we bring or that we buy the hybrids, it's more expensive.

Okay,

it's $56,330.60 with all of the add-ons that we add to our hybrid trucks. The hybrid's 54, right? So, the price difference is not that much. that that's not the issue and and neither really is the the charger because with the rapy building purchase

and this budget amendment

or the budget amendment you already approved, we can use some of that building upfit money to install a charger there. That's

okay. Okay. The reason we had not done anything yet is because we didn't own the buildings that were in and the buildings that we do are kind of under construction. But those are public works which we still are not very comfortable on electric vehicles considering what I've heard from other folks including Carrboro and Davidson. And I'm not really I'm still got my concerns about some of our park staff that haul trailers all day. That is not a use for an electric truck because they're just going to burn through their battery.

So, what would you use this for? This electric all-electric vehicle for trial run. We'd probably give it to the new park superintendent because he's not towing as many trailers around. He's more going around checking on what staff is doing. And Katie and I talked about that earlier today. Does the stack re staff recommend that we do one for a trial?

If this board is interested in moving in that direction, I think a trial of one is the best case at this time.

I'm interested.

I can see trying one and then go forward with how how it does see what the results are.

Yeah. So, Mr. Franklin's sorry to Mr. Franklin's point too is the superintendent there would be times to where they would tow mowers if we're short staffed or things like that and trailers and different things. So it's going to be a good test run because they're not always doing it. So, if we invested in it and we did it and found out, oh, maybe this isn't as ideal, but we could really put the battery to the test without it having consistently purchasing the vehicle and then be like, oh no, this may not work in this situation

or we could use it for a few weeks as

role and see how that goes. Correct.

Correct.

Yeah.

Okay. and moving forward with plans for town hall. We can also use this data to figure out how we want to implement these trucks and in that nature as well. And I've spoken with uh folks in inspections. They're like, as long as that's four-wheel drive, we could probably make it work.

Yeah. Okay.

So, we we have other options. Just for inspections, though, we don't have anywhere for them to charge. Um, but Daniel is looking at when his renovation with public works already putting in conduit running into a building uh to his shed where he's looking to have those installed. So, we're I think we're well ahead of the game and I think we're doing a great job.

Good to hear.

Of course, Daniel's out of here.

Of course he is. And I think some of the other larger town examples like this is more of a stretch for Pittsburgh with a smaller fleet, you know, percentage of our fleet that we're taking an opportunity on this, you know, and I think

the smaller budget smaller budget for sure. Um, and I think that, you know, even with the hybrids, there was some resistance and then we found that that was, you know, really great solution in certain cases, too. So, I think it's worth worth trying um and giving it some time before we make a decision on additional. Um, I know another issue was take on vehicles like with police and public works, but parks and wreck, we don't have take on vehicles, but

Okay.

Not on call

other than like if we use them in a storm or something maybe, but

yeah,

that's on the rare occasion. I mean, we we had to activate them uh for this past travel storm because uh a lot of our public work staff was were out on vacation. The only other thing that I would mention about this item is the pricing comes back and we exceed this dollar amount, we will have to come back to you with a budget amendment to to supplement that if if that is due to an electric vehicle over the the hybrid. But uh we'll try to make it work because I think some of these probably going to

cost a little less the the numbers say on the on the sheet. So we we might have a little breathing room there.

Good start. Okay.

So, we don't need to change the list. We've heard you loud and clear. So, if y'all approve this and we just have to let the bank know, hey, one of these is going to be an a problem.

Thank you. So, I'll make a motion to approve a resolution uh approving financing terms from First Citizens Bank and Trust Company.

Okay. Thank you. Is there a second?

Second.

Commissioner Bose. All those in favor say I.

I.

Thank you very much for the conversation, friends. Thanks for bringing that up.

Okay, up next we have a budget amendment for a Duke Energy Foundation grant.

Yeah. And uh the reason I wanted to use that to raise the conversation was here again um to um uh highly recommend uh the idea of an electric UTV. Um the utility terrain vehicle um is uh is slated for police patrol. Is that right?

Okay. Um and um I just wanted to share that um although there is a a premium to the EV version across nine different makes and models. Um, I have heard very good things from police departments from Greensboro to Elizabeth City praising the specifically the quiet stealthiness of the electric UTVs. Um, they have stronger torque. So, in the case of needing to tow something out of a ditch, uh, they are better at towing than even the gasoline versions. And um

that u that stealthiness I think has been specifically mentioned in in with regard to the importance of uh pursuit along greenways. Um so I just wanted to highly recommend it. Um, Chief Johnson, I think that you received the email that I shared with you, uh, quite a lot of information about the various makes and models. And so, uh, in the capacity of my day job, I remain at at at your service. Uh, any questions you might have, please let me know. And, uh, with that, there other thoughts or comments. Um, I'm trying to find the motion.

The motion to approve the budget ordinance amending the fiscal year 2526 budget.

So moved.

Thank you, Commissioner Bonds. Second.

Second.

Uh, Commissioner Vos. All those in favor?

I.

Any opposed?

All right. Um, and that's it. I'll take a motion to adjourn. So move. Commissioner Vos second. Second. Commissioner Bonnets. All those in favor say I. Thank you.